Why Higher Ed’s Biggest Challenge Is Fighting Public Perception—And How It Can Win

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart Hoster Podcast. Today we got Mr. Dion. Dion, where are you coming from virtually?

[0:23]  I am coming from the casual Friday in my basement today. House in Brooklyn, New York. Yep.

[0:34]  Love it. Love it. Brooklyn. So w were you out there excited when New York won and all these years, man? Were you that guy?

[0:45]  I wasn't. I'm a I'm a recovering Pelicans fan, so I'm from New Lake Charles, Louisiana, so Pell's fan naturally. I was excited for the city and New Yorkers having gone fifty-three years without a championship. but past that, you know, it didn't really do anything for me, but I was excited for them.

[0:57]  Got it, got it. what brought you to Brooklyn?

[1:00]  job at Kingsborough Community College with the CUNY system of New York. So I am now the vice president of enrollment management there. been there since August eighteenth, twenty twenty five, so almost made a year.

[1:16]  Love it, man. And we'll bring you into design of work. I know you're doing some special things outside of this as well, but br what bring you into design of work.

[2:06]  Yeah, so kind of fell into it. admissions work. I feel like I have a similar story to most of the folks in enrollment management or admissions counselors. a lot of the folks in higher ed. you know, I was I was at the University of Louisiana Lafayette looking for work in coaching in basketball. And so I had just earned a master's degree in business and kind of had little to no direction. I was actually working nights at Walmart with the MBA and working essentially for free with the University of Louisiana Lafayette women's basketball team as our video coordinator, struggling, it was some would say, looking to find a pattern. had a job offer in South Dakota. So I had spent almost a decade in Iowa playing basketball at the NAIA level and then coaching and earning an MBA. And then had a job offer in South Dakota to coach men's basketball. And at the same time, the same month, had an offer to be an admissions counselor at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette and chose the path ultimately that led me to the career path that I'm on today. initially had had ironically enough and I live in Brooklyn, had taken that path to stay close to home, to live in Lafayette, Louisiana, about an hour away from my family and in the same town as my wife's family. So, like I said, ironically enough it took us to Brooklyn. but here we are.

[2:56]  Love it, man. So spend some time here. What are some other things that you do that also just kind of fuel that passion and purpose, man? I think the spaces that we're in, doing this type of work it is truly just 'cause you you love to pour back in, you love to give to others. What are some other things that you're doing outside even of the school?

[3:12]  Yeah, so you know, both of my parents had you know, were Publ a public educator. So my dad was a coach and teacher for thirty years. my mom has been teaching for well, I want to say about twenty years. My brother was a principal and a coach. So I kind of grew up in a public education family. and I think that those roots kind of entrenched themselves in me growing up, seeing the work that was put in by not only my dad, who was the main who started off as a teacher and then my mom kind of transitioned from an oil company to a teacher and then brother kind of went down that path. So it's kind of like in my blood I guess. but yeah, so my wife is also she's a public defender, so our lives are kind of better built around public works and and employment and I like to think we're doing some good in the world. but you know, the pursuit of public education and you know, the results that that deliver, I feel like deliver, maybe have been lost a little bit in the cultural zeitgeist of the conversation. but that's kind of where my roots are and and the path that it's taken me down. But, you know, I kinda never look back after that first admissions council role. And the the institutions that I've worked for thus far have always d I feel like delivered on the promise of education, regardless of what the narrative is that surrounds it. and you know, my dissertation research, the doctoral path had had also you know centered around making sure that education wasn't taking advantage of students and I feel like every institution that I've chosen has been the opposite of of that of that point.

[4:58]  Yeah. I mean, you think you you said hope that you guys are are doing good and it's like, come on, man, the work that you guys are doing and being helpful and and really pouring into others the experience you provide someone that may have been in the unknown, that did not know, that thought they didn't have an opportunity. I can imagine, Dion, that you you you're really into those stories often. Do you recall someone that just probably didn't know the direction or maybe didn't know where they can go and and you were part of that journey? Does any story come to mind when we think about that?

[5:27]  Yeah, I mean, it's an uphill battle considering the like I said, like the cultural narrative around the conversation around higher education and whether that's worth it or not. And, you know, growing up in Louisiana, having those challenges of fighting that basically since my career began, you know, the really the conversation started to shift. definitely around the pandemic, but a couple years before that, I hate to get political, but with the, you know, in the the inset of the Trump administration, that's kind of sh hyper shifted that conversation further. and we really have a lot to do selling public education. So a as far as one story, it probably happens one

[5:49]  Mm-hmm.

[6:12]  Once a week where I have a conversation with a family with a student who doesn't think they can afford education. And we're communicating with in my role, you know, we're communicating with thousands of students a week. So having that conversation when the student walks into our office. and if that conversation gets to to my office, it's usually a more significant barrier than it's just handling at the front desk at our admissions counter or our financial aid counter. So but yeah, those conversations happen about once a week where a student doesn't have the money or you know, we're looking for alternative ways, whether that's through our foundation at KCC or being creative with our financial aid office.

[7:03]  Love it.

[7:08]  but there's always something that comes up and and our our folks on staff usually always find a a way around helping out that student.

[7:13]  Love it, man. Fertilizing the future, just one person at a time. when we think about the space of of higher ed as well, innovation. We talk about technology, we talk about AI. Where where do you see higher ed implementing some of these things or the need to implement some of these things?

[7:19]  Yeah, I mean I think higher ed In general is a few years behind the times when it comes to adjusting our model or how we're thinking about certain topics, but I think we've done a fairly good job at at being on pace with how rushed to market this these AI systems are. And you know, the job market's going to lag behind because I feel like you probably use AI most days. I know my wife does in her in her work. I know cabinet level members and myself at Kingsborough Community College do. So

[7:35]  Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[7:51]  So why shouldn't students? you know, we don't we we don't want that to I'm not a faculty member, so you have to take that with a grain of salt, but you know. We definitely have to fit our curriculum around recognizing that AI might be a useful tool for students who are coming in. They're already using it in high school, but you also don't want it to replace the work that needs to happen in order to educate the student. So in my work, it's it's you know, it's helped me personally build forecasting models to determine where we might be in September. to look at our historical models that would have probably taken me a month to build that it does in five minutes. So I would want our students to have those tools at their disposal to but you also need to have the background knowledge and the foundation in English and math and even in in conversational English to to understand w when it might be wrong, I think is the most significant thing because in my wife's work and in my work, if that's wrong and I present that to cabinet or I present that to an external anything externally outside of my own office, it's a big, big problem. So I think that we need to definitely ingrain AI into our curriculum, but give the students the tools to recognize when it's wrong, when to use it, and when not to use it. It's some of the most valuable experience that I've had and I know that my wife has to have or she could be disbarred. so it's very important in all of our work, but I think giving the students the tools to use it and then know when it doesn't replace, you know, your curriculum is very important.

[9:29]  Yeah. Love it. Yeah, you're a hundred percent. It's just really it's not going anywhere. How are we using it for the good? Because as everything as we've evolved and you know with technology and social media and all that, it's they all could be used in the wrong ways and some of them right now being used in the wrong ways. I think AI is that. but I think there's really there's there's a benefit if used correctly, if understanding what those parameters are as well, as you mentioned. when we come into communication, I believe there's also a different ch there's just a change. In parents being more involved. So the communication just doesn't become between just a school and a student. Now we're talking about a school and a parent. Are you seeing that more nowadays?

[10:43]  I don't wanna say more. I think what students are asking for is authenticity and that's why you've seen such a rise in influencers over the past, you know, decade or so. whether it's a restaurant review or a college tour, I think having the students who are there showcasing earning the education, paying the tuition and fees, and then delivering their view and their perspective is so much more honest and clean than, you know, I I try we we we take a look at our marketing materials every year. I have conversations across CUNY with our own folks on campus and every single every single CUNY school, every single school that I've worked at Has talked about their campus life, their student organizations, their student to faculty ratio. So, how can we differentiate our message? How can we give that authenticity to students? And it's hard. It's definitely hard on a community college budget. It's difficult finding students within two years. Most of them are getting on and off campus quickly. So, how do you find that influence or how do you find students willing to tell your story? We've been lucky on our campus, at least at a minimum, we can have a student. who's our ba ambassadors for our college and who will say, you know, I earned an education degree at Kingsboro and it led me to this career path. It led me to a scholarship at Cornell. you know, it it it it's it's difficult finding those stories. but or the students at least willing to deliver those stories, especially in an authentic manner on their own personal channels. but we've finding ways to do it. and that's what I think, well counter that cultural narrative that I had talked about earlier.

[11:58]  And what do you think Kingsbore, when we talk about the your community college, what are some of the things people may not expect, but should expect when they show up at this campus? So for those that just never even know existed, what are some of the special things that you guys are doing?

[12:12]  Well, we everyone we we always talk about our beach. So we're the we're the only community college in Brooklyn with a beach. But you know, our new Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very different. I I didn't expect that moving here. so it's been interesting. but you know, we're a community college. We are a commuter school. we're most of you know, ninety plus percent of our students receive financial aid, so very few of our students are paying really anything out of pocket, but

[12:26]  That is different. They can't say it.

[12:40]  It's a it's a and I'm proud of the work that I do and we do on campus because it is a gateway to if it's not directly into a career path, it's a gateway to Brooklyn College to other CUNY four years. It's academic recovery from you know, it's it's public education at its finest, I think, because we are taking students who have two kids and a full time job and getting that student to elevate themselves to, you know, make more money or graduate into two years from another institution. So at the foundational level, it's what I think my parents had believed in, what my family members and brothers had believed in, what my wife's work helps, I hope, alleviate some some folks who need the public defense work. so, you know, earning money and and and setting themselves up for a life outside of you know, especially with housing and costs and gas and increasing costs across the board, I feel like we are a springboard for the middle class. and and folks to elevate themselves in this economy. It's specifically difficult. So I think we do a great job of setting up students for success at Kingsboro.

[13:19]  Do guys have any direct connects with universities and colleges? I I guess in the area after the two year?

[13:58]  Yeah, so I mean a big you know, our biggest we're the biggest feeder, I believe, for for Brooklyn College. So that's a big feeder for us. Obviously we have stud we send students all over the country. know our valedictorian's going to Cornell. I forget where our salutatorians going this year, but we send students to Ivy's all the time. so and that's not to say that every student's that's every student's path because a lot of our marine technology students or our med tech or any of the other job ready workforce you know ready programs we're sending students directly into Merc force making seventy five thousand dollars salaries and and higher. So it depends on the job market. It depends on

[14:37]  Love it.

[14:39]  on the the credential But, you know, i and every student's different and every student's unique and I feel like our advisors know that and hopefully, you know, we're setting students up to be successful once they once they graduate or or move on. You know, it's not it's the it's our intention for our students to graduate, but a lot of times students have a a three point a three point five, they've got their twelve or eighteen credits and they want to transfer to four year college. And so that's f that's fine by us. We know we're not we're not built to to graduate everyone and we understand that and students can still be successful.

[14:43]  Yeah.

[15:12]  successful taking a few credits at a time and moving on.

[15:21]  Is there any as we start to wrap this up, any underrated like programs that people are not tapping into but should be tapping into or looking into? I can imagine there's s some of those that are really, really good and people just may not know about

[15:30]  Yeah, so we we actually have a a partnership with a with a hospital at New York Presbyterian where our nursing students can actually go straight into work. So I don't want to say it's underrated, it's very properly rated. But but you know, a lot of our students come with the intention of being nurses and they do become nurses and they go straight into the workforce. And some will go earn their BSN elsewhere while making money. but it is far and away our most popular program, I believe, and and one that definitely sets our students.

[18:14]  Yeah, yeah.

[18:14]  up for success. And like I I say it again, it's definitely not underrated, but it's something that the community knows us for and we deliver on.

[18:14]  What are some of your goals, man, as you continue to just do this work? I can imagine that you have some things in mind that you would love to complete. always like to hold people accountable here so we can go back to this video. What are some of the things you want to see play out?

[18:14]  So personally, I guess and professionally, my job, my whole world is to increase enrollment at Kingsboro. is to deliver on the promises that higher education provides the opportunity for. And so my whole Job is to increase freshman enrollment, transfer enrollment, re-is readmit enrollment, and continuing student enrollment. So we're on track right now. I think we're up near 20% year over year for fall 25 to fall 26. that's very much the enrollment managers daily, day-to-day. we're we're looking at those dashboards, but we're also helping students. We're walking them through the door, we're making sure that each access point, whether it's a student who's reaching out to us, who's calling our office.

[18:14]  Yeah.

[18:15]  Line, making sure there's somebody on the other end either answering the email or picking up the phone and then walking them through applying, through being admitted, accepting an offer. you know, we text we texted 10,000 students last week. and you would you would be shocked at the replies that some people think we're bots, but there are real humans, and a lot of times it's me behind the phone texting. I I must have gotten like, I don't know, 200 text message alerts on the

[18:16]  Holy crap.

[18:17]  This this little thing. I get all the tech you can't see it on the screen, but I get a every single text that gets responded to is on my phone. So I

[18:18]  That is crazy. The work that people don't know you do behind the scenes.

[18:19]  Right. And they think it's a bot most of the time, but I'm like, No, I'm I'm here. I I had one student mad at me last week because we were requiring the MMR vaccine and we offer it actually free on campus, but he was complaining about the cost. So I'm just saying come to I just said come to campus, get it for free and and he said well he said he actually texted me back, I'll send you the bill. I don't think it's gonna work. but yeah, that's

[18:20]  We'll take care of ya. I love it. And and where can people find more information about this, man? about the school, about some of the curriculums that are happening, programs.

[18:21]  Yeah, I mean Googling Kingsboro Community College is the best way. You know, I I had to do that in my my actually my first trip to Brooklyn and to New York City was my interview here. Yeah. So we moved sight unseen. We had to get an apartment with three dogs and a yard in in Brooklyn, New York, side unseen. And my wife had all these requirements for square footage that we didn't know was gonna cost so much. But Yeah.

[18:23]  Wow. I was gonna say not in Brooklyn's for sure.

[18:26]  Yeah. So but yeah, so finding us, you know, we can take you can take a virtual tour, you can come on campus and and check us out, check out our beach, talk to me if you if you feel the need. But yeah, Googling that and and hopefully finding some time and space to meet with one of our admissions counselors or talk to me, talk to our financial aid office and come check out campus. would be great to hear from anyone and everyone interested.

[18:29]  Dear man. yeah, Dion, thank you so much for your time, man, and for just everything you've been able to pour into this conversation for others to just be able to learn of what's happening in their cities, in their own backyards, or maybe if they're looking to be a part of something that they know exactly where to go, especially if they're in that Brooklyn area and like beaches. guys, my name's E Frey. This is Dion. We'll catch you guys in the next episode. Later.

[18:32]  Yeah. Thanks.