Inside a Local Nonprofit’s Secret: How They Serve Hundreds of Families Without Limits | Sarah Lundin

[0:17]  Welcome back to another episode here on the heart and hustle podcast. I got miss Sarah today. How you doing today,

[0:22]  I'm good, how are you?

[0:24]  Listen, we talked about it is Monday, you know, it's beautiful. Looks like it's gonna rain here, but we're blessed. We're live, Sarah. Where are Where are are we talking from? Where are you located?

[0:30]  Thank you. in Freeport, Maine.

[0:36]  Love it, born and raised?

[0:37]  Born in Yarmouth, well raised in Yarmouth, but basically born there, which is right next door to Freeport. So I didn't make it very far, although as a teenager, I thought I was going to move across the country. But Freeport's great and I can't leave.

[0:52]  You know, I'm pretty sure that as we grew older, a lot of the things that seemed very big and far, it's like, I'm not really going anywhere. And this is small, by the way. Like, yeah, yeah, 100%. I love it. And what got you into the space of higher ed?

[0:52]  Yeah. Well, so I graduated college with a degree in sociology and minor in women's studies. actually, I was thinking about this after we talked last time. One of the things that really impacted my future was during one of my sociology classes, a professor had a friend of his who was homeless at the time living in Portland come in and speak to the class. And one of the questions that was asked of him was like, what do you wish for every day? Like, what do you hope to have happen? And he's like, I just want one person to ask me how I'm doing, to not be afraid of me, to not go to the other side of the street or assume that I'm asking for money. I just want someone to be like, hey, how are you? How's your day going? And that still today resonates really deeply with me.

[0:52]  Yeah.

[1:57]  You know, so I had opportunities working in municipal government and running a welfare program for a larger city in our, in our state. And I felt like I really lost that ability to just connect with folks on a really human level. The program, while it provided emergency assistance was very much restricted by income and other eligibility requirements. And I got to the point where I didn't want to say no to someone who I should be saying yes to, who needed somebody to say yes to them. And once I kind of came to that... moment within myself, I started looking for other opportunities. Freeport Community Service was looking for kind of like a family services coordinator at the time, I think is what the position was called. And walking through these doors, I just was like, how do I get myself here? How can I be a part of this magic that you feel truly entering the space? And it was my opportunity to say yes, to not have boundaries, to not have barriers or to access of basic needs and it was it's been home ever since.

[3:10]  I the real question that I have is did you mention the gentleman that came to speak to you guys was homeless? How did your instructor even, yeah, professor get him into the room? Was it a friend of his or?

[3:15]  He was, yeah, he was currently homeless in Portland. Professor. Yeah, I don't know their exact relationship, but he was able to bring him into the classroom to connect with all of the students. And this was, you know, early 2000s, so Zoom wasn't really a thing. Maybe it was, I don't know. I didn't know about it at the time. So, you know, he wasn't kind of reporting virtually. He was there and was so generous with his time and so honest with the class. I mean, sociology as a subject in general is...

[3:35]  Yeah. Right. Wow.

[3:55]  amazing and incredible, but to have an opportunity to connect with a human being that otherwise life may not give you that opportunity was really amazing and also in turn created, I think, many organic and sometimes maybe not organic chances to connect with folks that otherwise would not have happened out of fear, out of unknown. out of assumptions that I think naturally we just make in our day-to-day lives.

[4:24]  Yeah. I just love the... And it's almost so cheesy, right? The things that we think as as young kids. But I know I say this and one person, one story, one moment changes somebody's life. Sarah, your life is changed at that moment by that person, by that story. Right. Like and because of it, now you're living this life of passion and purpose, understanding and probably even more kinder. You probably already kind. Seems like you're kind person, but that you're even more kind now when we see people out in the streets that may not have something because we don't know that we will be more willing to say hello to

[4:41]  Yes. Mm-hmm. and... Bye.

[4:58]  somebody because it is sometimes someone who just wants to feel seen or heard, you know. Yeah, that is so cool.

[5:04]  Truly, yeah, because they're so like, like invisible in this reality of theirs in that moment of being homeless and being associated with maybe some past negative experiences, or again, just the unknown. Yeah, the visibility piece is really huge.

[5:20]  Mm-hmm. kudos for that man to be able to have that conversation. But that's why also telling your story is so important, because we also don't know what that does for somebody else. And you probably didn't mention anything, Sarah, but look, that one story and the impact that it's made all these years later, that's why I love the storytelling aspect of it. When we get to tell our stories from, because at one point we were that young, that youth, right? I was listening to somebody, says, Ephraim, when I left high school, I had a rocket with no direction.

[5:36]  Mm-hmm. Right. Hahaha Good night. Great. Hmm.

[5:52]  right? And now Sarah, you're in this space where that rocket that's going all over the place, you can actually let them know what direction to kind of go or help them, right? We can't force them to go in any direction, but we can definitely give them the guidance and the resources that maybe they didn't have. So Sarah, actually want to talk about your role that you played today. If you could tell us the school and the role and what does your day to day actually look like?

[5:52]  Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, so it's Freeport Community Services, which is a local nonprofit in Freeport, Maine, and we serve Freeport and Pownell. So my day to day, I consider myself, along with my colleagues here at FCS, cheerleaders for our community. And that looks different for everybody. Obviously, kind of what you were saying, like people's needs are different. And so one interaction is not necessarily going to be the same as the second. You know, we have a food pantry, we have a thrift shop.

[5:52]  Okay.

[6:42]  We have a lot of needs-based resources that we offer here. so, you know, again, depending on who's walking through the door, could be someone who's showing up for yoga, or it could be someone who just found out that they, you know, have maybe lost their job and need to plan for the future, or someone who has been utilizing our food pantry for 20 years and is coming in for their weekly visit. So it really, it's... different and beautiful and ugly too on many occasions. Nothing's perfect. But we do our best to have people leave here better than when they entered. just we have such an amazing team of staff members that materialize that every single day. It's I often tell people we, know, things can feel really heavy right now for many reasons and to have an opportunity to show up to a really great place every single day and have a positive impact within our community makes the day to day a little bit easier to swallow. Yeah.

[7:13]  Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't think when you remember the why, right, like you mentioned, things are a little difficult at the government level or any of these things. But it's when we remember the why, it allows us to keep fighting because it was never really about a money aspect. was it was about how do we help others. And I think that the pandemic really showed us what we are capable of in a time where we had very limited resources, but we still had a lot to do. So I look at these moments and how do we pivot?

[7:44]  Yeah. Truly. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[8:16]  How do we continue to collaborate and drop our egos? I think a lot of collaboration has to happen right now because sometimes we're fighting the same mission as what happens when we come together and really be able to share those resources. We really get to impact more. So I think we're seeing definitely a lot of that. How many people would you guys say you see on a monthly basis?

[8:32]  Yes. it really kind of fluctuates a little bit. If we're looking at the food pantry, we're serving about 140 households a week, and folks can come in every single week for the month. So oftentimes it's duplicative. So I would say we're probably around 200 some odd households, which could be 800, 600 to 800 people, depending on how large those households are at the end of the day. again, where we have the thrift shop and we have other programming happening, we think we

[8:36]  Yeah.

[9:05]  see about 4,000 people throughout the course of a year for one reason or another coming into the building. That does include, we do have a pretty large tourism industry here in Freeport, so it does include folks from away. You know, for our social service or kind of needs-based programs, is the one restriction or one requirement we have for those is that they are, people are coming to us, our Freeport or Pondal resident. Outside of that, for our yoga, our free meals for the thrift shop, any sort of enrichment activities, those are open entirely to the community and whoever's in it at that time. So we can have some really, really cool interactions because of that, getting to meet folks from all over the world, truly. And it just, I think it just kind of enriches all that we do here every day.

[9:41]  I love it. It's always cool to just see what people like yourself are doing. And actually what I like to know because we're in the storytelling business when we talk about nonprofits. What is that story that if you ever feel like that imposter syndrome, you start to ask yourself, what am I doing or am I doing the right thing? What is that story that you always go to to say, yeah, I'm doing the right thing.

[10:18]  Yeah. Honestly, I think it's that one that I shared with you earlier. It's just thinking about seeing, truly seeing and validating everyone's existence that I get to come into contact with every single day. And FCS is just like the most incredible place to make that happen on a higher, at a higher frequency almost, I would think. Being...

[10:30]  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah.

[10:42]  I do consider it a position of privilege to be able to hear folks and to share space with them during some of their darkest times and to be able to be that cheerleader for them. To hear and not assume that I know what people need, I think is a really important aspect of that as well. And to feel like I did that successfully and have someone leave here with a smile on their face or hope. Like that's what fills the cup right there. It's incredible.

[11:15]  Yeah. You didn't just do it successfully. You're still doing it successfully, Seremon. That's the important part.

[11:20]  Just because I'm executive director does not mean that I don't. I've been here for over 11 years, so there are some really strong relationships that have formed over those years. And I can't let go of connecting with those individuals, meeting new people too, certainly. But yeah, you have, just, there's some really amazing people here and I'm excited to see them every day.

[11:39]  yeah. That is so cool. I would ask, where does this like, this heart of giving come from? I know we talked about a story, but I can imagine that there was something before that. So was mom and dad that for you? Like what made you just care? Because that moment didn't just happen because of the story. Clearly someone also kind of was probably already planted that seed in your life. And that was just that trickle of water that continues. So where do you think it comes from?

[11:58]  Mmm. right. That's a really good question because I don't feel like I didn't grow up every day with that sort of awareness of others. mean, being a teenager, I think that's it's really hard to get out of your own head and think about other individuals. And my parents weren't necessarily philanthropic. Like they were involved in some things, but not at any high level. But I would say my grandmother on my father's side, she's long worked at soup kitchens, more on the faith based side, which

[12:17]  Mm-hmm. Okay.

[12:37]  I don't, we don't always align on, but still amazing. Whenever I would visit her, I would go and I would help prep the meals or do some little projects that she was working on. She makes quilts for folks who are going through cancer treatment. So like just little ways that she can give back to the community she does. And so I would definitely say that's probably where that got planted very unknowingly many years ago.

[12:53]  Yep. Mm-hmm. Got it. Okay.

[13:10]  but she's amazing, so.

[13:11]  That's how it is. I have this fascination with plants. really because I used to water all my mom's plants and she would yell at me to make sure that you don't water them too much. And when it rained, you take out the plants and my God, it was a job. then around 20, my late 20s, I got one plant. Okay. And now I'm at 50, Sarah. And then I think about it.

[13:24]  Mm-hmm. Love. Your mom must be so proud.

[13:37]  Oh my god, I'm so proud that now she's buying me pots and every time I go over her house she's giving me another plant. Oh my god, tell me about it. I actually now go to, so funny, I go to the clearance section when I go to Walmart and I always go buy the plants because a pot is broken. So I ain't there with all these new plants but like you mentioned it's like well now I gotta buy a pot and they're hell of expensive. yeah, some of them are not in pots but I do got some nice pots.

[13:42]  That is huge though, those pots are not cheap. Yep. Yeah. fed up. All right, show me, show me. that's a good one. That's a great deal.

[14:06]  I got this one on clearance. $5. Okay, Sarah.

[14:12]  Ooh, that's a really good one.

[14:14]  $5 and if you're asking where the hell is the plants, Sarah, they're actually outside catching rain. Remember I told you I take them out for the rain.

[14:20]  they're enjoying it. Perfect. love that free water.

[14:26]  This is another one.

[14:28]  That's a good one. Those are really, you did good.

[14:32]  So anytime I see a clearance section at Walmart, just know that I'm there looking for plants and pots. Okay, I'm that guy. You got to, I'm propagating them too. Now I'm making babies out of babies. So yeah, I'm living on, I don't have any around me, but I like spider plants and stuff like that. I have a Centronella plant. I told you that I, that the office, the studio is in the garage. So Centronella plants, make sure the mosquitoes stay out here. But yeah, I think a lot of the things that we do.

[14:36]  Yes. Fantastic. As you should be, rescue those little babies. They need it. You like leveled up in your... yeah. Love that.

[15:00]  Sarah is someone planted this seed in us and we just don't know. So I'm glad that you said it was grandma because sometimes we don't even know what we're picking up. But it really also fills our cups when we get to do that thing. I'm learning that puzzles, I like that because my mind works 100 miles per hour that now because I have a daughter and she's like, wanna do puzzles dad, that I'll sit there for hours and do puzzles. And I'm like, oh wow, I actually like these things.

[15:13]  Yes. I'm ready. Yes.

[15:26]  So also just trying something new. Have you tried anything new recently, Sarah, that you're like, wait a minute, I like this. Maybe like chickens or something, Sarah?

[15:35]  No. Well, yeah, the chickens have been around for a little while. So I do have like a little makeshift homestead on less than an acre in Cumberland, which is great. So planting in chickens and we'll be adding to the chicken flock, which I'm excited about. But my husband and I, a couple of years ago, took up stained glass. So that's kind of, that's my puzzle piece moment because you you're cutting the glass, then you have to grind it, and then you get your puzzle opportunity of putting it all back together.

[15:57]  you Yeah.

[16:02]  It's many steps and it's sometimes exhausting, but overall it's really quiet in here when I do it and that is awesome. Or I get to listen to an audio book or podcast, but generally it's quiet and focused.

[16:19]  Yeah. And are you selling any of these? Can we go on your social and see these? I gotta see this stuff.

[16:24]  Yeah! I'm not selling them. do share often photos of them on my social media along with my chickens, cats, dogs, garden and whatnot flowers. So maybe someday I'll sell them.

[16:51]  I'm gonna have to get your social offline so I can go see these things that you're creating. Plus I wanna see these chickens. It is so cool. What gets you into that spot of chickens and I can imagine there's more animals coming along. But what gets you into that one, is something that you always knew you wanted to do, your husband's family got there, or how do you think one day I'm gonna have all these chickens?

[17:18]  Yeah. Well, so growing up, I worked at the local veterinary hospital. I started volunteering there and then in high school worked there and worked there through most of college too until I started interning. And I would pet sit and there was this one farm out in Pownall who had llamas and goats and sheep and chickens. And I just, like that, I loved, that was my favorite place. I would buy that farm now if interest rates weren't so high and it was for sale. It's such, it's, and so I always knew that I wanted a lot of animals. I think you see those memes nowadays of like the nineties kids whose parents said when you grow up, you can have all the cats you want. I do. have all, I'll be able to soon have all the chickens I want. yes, we have four cats, two dogs, and then the six chickens and

[17:45]  How many cats? How many cats?

[17:49]  It's a small house, but we make it work and it's just a blast. And so I actually, when I started my college, started out in college, I thought I wanted to go to like veterinary school and quickly failed anatomy and physiology. My poor dad was there when I found out. So like, feel like I to apologize to him every single time I talk about it. So that I realized quickly that I just, science aspect of it, I couldn't, it didn't click for me. It was not. It was not my passion. I loved the animals. I loved that. And then kind of when I called it like my recovery year when I went to school in upstate Maine and trying to figure out what I wanted to do. My grandparents were out there, so that's always fun. And that's when I took my first sociology class and it just, that clicked instantly. So I found a way to balance my love of people with my overwhelming love of animals too.

[18:18]  I love it. funny you say that my wife wanted to be a veterinarian as well and she tells me stories how her mom got her all these pets you know from bearded dragons to guinea pigs to cats that stray cats that they just found out and they would always come home with these things and now I have to tell my wife don't you dare I don't like cats don't you dare okay I was actually gone to Vegas and she was telling me how there was this kitten in the back and it was so cute

[18:47]  Love it. Yeah. Who's the flyers?

[19:16]  I said, leave that kitten in the back and do not bring him in, okay? Cause I already knew where her mom was going. So she's in that space of, yeah, I want chickens. I want all these things. Cause she's probably going back to her mom saying, you can have it all. No, no, no, no. Okay. We're not going to do that at this house. I do love dogs. What kind of dogs do you have?

[19:35]  Yeah. No! So there are two mixes. We have one that's like a lab cattle dog mix and his name is Higgins. And then our girl pop, her name is Fern and she's like a pit chow lab cocker spaniel mix. She just looks like she's just the happiest little mutt ever and they're the best. We love them so much.

[19:55]  know you don't want to hear this Sarah, but I actually lost my two dogs. And I think to myself, why do we set ourselves up by getting more animals? Like my wife is like, you don't want to get another one? No. Why would I'm sitting here boohoo crying, looking at my dog on this table, you know? So.

[19:55]  Hello. Mm-hmm. It's heartbreaking. I know. They're like, just, they become, feel like the best extensions of ourselves. Like they're just the most purest, kindest beings. But I also think as coming, maybe a little bit to your wife's defense, that being in a position to help them through some of their worst days, like they did us, is a pretty incredible thing.

[19:55]  Yeah.

[20:32]  and an amazing gift to be able to give back. I'm trying not to cry, but it is so huge and I just, yeah, they need us.

[20:40]  Yeah. Well, I think about our dogs. You are 100 % right. And what I love about, and we had to kind of go back to those moments is, I had my pit. It was a pit and Labrador mix. And first of all, I love pits. And I know they get such a bad rep. But this dog was the sweetest dog. was a female dog. And I had her for 15 years, actually. it was three months into me and my wife's relationship when we were just boyfriend and girlfriend, we got this dog.

[20:53]  Mm-hmm. Yeah, they do. Yeah.

[21:06]  And the dog got to see us go from living in an apartment to moving to a condo to buying a house to seeing, think, maybe both our kids or at least seeing the first kid. And then I think she might have been pregnant with the second kid. But just the dog even seeing us evolve and being a part of this journey, right? Seeing us through our ups and downs and never judging us and all that. But yeah, as you mentioned, even being there for those moments of when the dogs need, it was such a, it was wild.

[21:21]  Amazing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No.

[21:37]  We almost knew that it was happening because of her getting older. And it was like 2 o'clock in the morning. maybe you don't want to hear the story, but I just realized I'm in the middle of telling it. It was 2 o'clock in the morning and my dog wanted to go outside. So I let the dog outside, but she really didn't go all the way outside. So I'm damn near pushing her outside. And then realized she didn't want to go anywhere. So I'm like, OK. So I brought her back inside. I go to sleep.

[21:50]  Yes, right. No, no, no, no, no, Sharon. I've been through it maybe on some level, but. Mm-hmm.

[22:04]  and she lays down right by my daughter's door, clearly closed. But then when we wake up, all I hear is like vomiting and like she went to poop inside the house. And now she's laying literally at my bedside where my head lays. And so now six o'clock in the morning, I'm trying to pick up this mess. And I'm trying to move the dog, you know, the dog would not move. And I'm like picking the dog up and the dog is kind of like playing, you know, limp a little bit. And then I can see like the gums are very white at this point.

[22:19]  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[22:34]  And I'm not I'm not my mind is not trying to go there. Right. My wife is like, we got to call somebody about her. So she gets on the floor. The dog puts her head on my wife's lap. That was the that was the dog's last breath. She wanted she dealt she literally died comfortably on my wife's lap. And then the little dog the rat terrier knew it like would come and just kind of like gave it a kiss and just didn't want to look at it just walked away. So and then my my rat terrier

[22:47]  for sure, 100%. Bye. Yeah. sweet babies.

[23:00]  I was on my way. I knew something was happening to his rat terrier as well. I'm having an argument with my wife because she's like, no, they're going to put it to sleep. And I'm like, but what do I do? So on my way to the ER, the dog passed, like literally turned his whole body. And by the time I just passed. And again, I'm an emotional person. it's like it's like I feel sometimes that I'm on my mental cycle as well, Sarah, where I just start crying sometimes. And I'm like, what the heck? But yeah, dogs are our family to us,

[23:12]  Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. They are. They are. Yeah.

[23:25]  those tough times. They don't judge us. They love us. They're very kind people. can't say something about cats, but dogs. Love you to dogs. I love it.

[23:38]  No. Most of our cats are very sweet, very, very loving. We have a main coon that we have, and he's delightful, but he terrorizes and terrifies everybody but my husband and I, like anyone who comes through the door. He's 18 pounds, so he's like probably as big as your rat terrier, maybe larger.

[23:43]  Yeah.

[24:03]  and just has, and he's a cat. So he'll like hiss at people, he'll growl at them, he'll like run by and like growl at them and scare them or knock their drink off of like whatever counter it's on. He just, terrorizes people. He's the truest, fearful, like he's the cat that everyone is afraid of. And I get it, I get it. But most of them aren't like that.

[24:20]  Yeah. I love that. There's these, there was these two stray cats that, I wouldn't say they were stray cats. My neighbor next door, he had two cats and I guess there's one cat inside the house that does not like the two cats that are outside. So you bring the two outside cats into battle. So he always left them outside and fed them. He ended up passing away. My neighbor across the street has two humongous German shepherds that you would be scared of. And before he left, before he passed, he told the neighbor, says, please do not let.

[24:37]  Mmhmm. Yep. no. Mm-hmm.

[24:54]  your dogs do anything to these cats. They're very loving cats. Those two cats are now living inside the house with the two German Shepherds. And it took a long time. It took them a long time. So now even though, because I work out with my neighbor, I see these cats all the time. And like now I can pet a cat a little bit. But these cats were so scared of us. And now they're playing with these German Shepherds. Right. So I'm getting a little over these cats.

[25:11]  Yeah. I love it! Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so amazing. I love it. love it. Our dogs are definitely like, our dogs are, they respect the cats. The cats are in charge in our house and the dogs are just like, okay.

[25:29]  That's it. I mean, the dogs, you know, the dogs become a little, duh, as the cats are very, you know, smart, wise cats. Listen, I know we're closing up here and I really enjoyed the conversation. We got to talk a little bit about you as a leader, some of the things that kind of fuel you to do what it is that you do today. I guess the next thing I would love to know if we were like in an elevator pitch and you got to talk to people on what the organization does.

[25:40]  Yes, yes, always thinking.

[25:52]  There's so many different aspects of it. So maybe five, 10 seconds on an elevator. What does that look like for those that are watching right now, maybe tuned in at this moment that you can tell them what you guys are doing as an organization, how also they can be a part of it.

[26:05]  definitely not an elevator in Maine. is a elevator outside of our area. know, Freeport Community Services is truly a place for everyone. We have resources that serve those folks who find themselves in need, our neighbors, when that happens. And we also have resources for people who are looking for social opportunities, creative outlets, you know, really what have you. As a social service nonprofit, we have endless opportunities for volunteers. So that's a really great way for folks to give back to their community and both through donations to our thrift shop and fundraising and engaging with our neighbors as well who do have means. We're supporting this organization in a really amazing way and making sure that programs that were relevant 50 years ago are still relevant today and able to meet the increasing demands every day that we see.

[27:03]  Love it. And you just kind of mentioned how people could be, you know, donate, volunteer, all these different things. Where can they find more information? I know you mentioned 50 years. There's a lot of things that you guys definitely have stories to be told, things to show. Is there a website, social media? Where can people find this stuff at?

[27:17]  Thank Yeah, so we do have a Facebook and an Instagram page, but you can get there through our website, which is fcsmain.org. So F is in Freeport, C is in Community, S is in Services. And that's how you find us. We've got a lot going on, so we'd love to have more folks involved.

[27:35]  I'm gonna just say this last thing before we hop off here. An idea that just came to mind is because how do you bring both your passions together? Maybe you mentioned yoga, like is it like goat yoga? know, you get the animal in there? Like Sarah, how do you mix them in together?

[27:53]  Hahaha That's amazing. So we do do like retreats with staff and there's a really lovely farm in Cumberland right down the road from me that has baby goats. So we'll go and snuggle the goats. They also do goat yoga there. But you know. We don't have a lot of animals at the center as much as I try to. Every now and then the dogs will come in with me or something like that. But we have some really lovely ambassadors that are service animals for our neighbors that when they're coming in here, they're giving therapy to everybody. But yeah, you you just kind of get creative with it. And there was a woman in need a couple of weeks ago as she was trying to find housing after a domestic violence situation and her two cats got to hang out with me in my office for the day. So I guess that's one way. And they were able to be reunited after a weekend of figuring things out, which best best case scenario.

[28:47]  Okay. I love it. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for your time here today and being able to just shed some light on what you guys are doing in your own backyard. Sometimes people just don't know. I think there's phenomenal things you just mentioned, not just for those in the community, but even those that actually come and visit. There's something, a piece of here for you as well. So make sure you guys check out the website, make sure you guys check out socials to see what Sarah and Cole are actually doing in their communities and continue to help other people just as you mentioned. feel seen and heard. So Sarah, thank you for the job and the work that you've been doing for so many years. If you guys are still watching, make sure you guys like, subscribe and comment, because these are the conversations that we're having with leaders. We're in this together. I'm Efrain, this is Sarah. We'll catch you on the next one. Laters.

[28:48]  Okay. Thank you.