The #1 Reason Digital Addiction is KILLING Your Leadership Skills!

[0:00]  all right guys welcome back to a brand new episode of the heart and hustle podcast today I'm sitting across this digital table with Chris Nelson the CEO of Freedom service dogs now today's conversation is all about what does it truly mean to be an alpha you're going to learn how these little devices that we carry around AKA our cell phones are distracting us from The Human Experience we're going to talk about what it means to lean on your community to uplift others but more importantly some of the challenges that we're facing when it comes to serving and supporting our veterans and the question has to be asked are we doing enough in today's conversation with Chris Nelson we take all of this on let's get into the episode well here's where it gets complicated the device has a lot of great stuff about it too right like because there are um times and places where you can't connect with loved ones

[0:48]  and it's a way to do that whether it's you know I I mean I keep in touch with like high school buddies only because of social media right like um I have friends that I we also talk on the phone and see each other but um there are there's good in it too I think the problem is that it's it's yeah it's tricked our brains into wiring to instead of it being a tool that we use integrated with all the other human connection um it's become a substitute for actual human connection and that's where we've gone wrong I get a lot of [ __ ] out in the world because I'm just like always like trying to hey how you doing um you know like that's just how I live my life and even my wife will be like why do you why do you got to be everybody's friend and I'm like that's not it's not about being everybody's friend I think it's about it fills my soul to engage with

[1:50]  people somebody said like passively in a piece of content or something that I was watching they said you know if you say yes to this right now you're saying no to something else later yeah and so framing it that way was a big adjustment for me but it took a long time of trial and error and me falling fat of my [ __ ] face to realize that I am the controller of my ship you know which is completely it's a big responsibility but you grow into that you know yeah it's hard to it's hard to figure out how we get there because it's usually a pretty Meandering path for most of us to get to a place where um we understand that we're the captains you know like it takes a it takes a series of events or you know one tough lesson to go wait a minute I'm responsible wholly for this

[2:37]  and then navigating through that whole process of what does it mean to be responsible and can I carry that responsibility and how can I carry that responsibility it's crazy us humans are a [ __ ] mess dude we really are man there's a there's an element of um accountability which I feel like is lost today in society a lot of people are responsible for for their actions right but they don't want to take accountability for the results that their actions actually cause does that make sense yeah I think that the well cuz one is one is a statement and one is behavior right and and so more and more I think that there's a a problem that we have society in which we've made it easier as a society to say I'm responsible for what I've

[3:25]  done but because of the influences of and I don't mean this Ator I mean maybe sometimes it is used sort of maliciously but this idea of cancel culture which is not necessarily what we're talking about but I think there are these external pressures that say outside of the judicial system this is how we as a society are going to hold you accountable and I think there's a natural resistance to being held accountable and I think if we could intrinsically be more accountable I mean you look at restorative justice practices you look at these things where it's like you look at AA you know 12 step programs I have to make amends and it includes doing these things that's accountability um losing your job because of a mistake you made and

[4:13]  somebody you know lighting your world on fire that's not accountability that's punishment and I think that like we've started to blur these lines between accountability and Punishment and so not def I don't know if I'm defending it or not actually who cares but that if you take a step into how we used to take accountability it's getting diminished because of all the punishment that surrounds us everywhere and because those two things have gotten conflated I get it I'm happy to be accountable in the ways that I can be accountable I like sometimes I can look like hey y'all I made a mistake at work and um I'm gonna have to lose some sleep tonight over fixing that while I fix that right that's accountability um I don't want to be none of want to be punished for

[5:01]  mistakes that we make or bad choices that we make right again outside of the judicial system we don't most people don't want that either but because of the fear of punishment we have I think are resisting account personal accountability it's a real bummer that we've done that and I think there's almost an element of people want to punish others and so we go into this keyboard Warrior ISM if you will where we feel like we can cast blame and cast judgment on people and make them suffer for the things that they've done without the accountability of being the person who's actually delivering the punishment that's where there's a real lack of accountability because of the anonymity because um you know you listen to podcasts and occasionally podcasters will say these are this is the

[5:50]  commentary I get and you know the statistics are out there there's a bunch of lonely isolated Men Who who are privately I mean anonymously criticizing everybody else on the planet to help feel empowered or whatever it is and it's gotten nasty and so it's another contributor to like I don't want to be accountable because everybody's holding me is punishing me publicly or whatever like it's really hard then you get defensive and then it like breaks down this healthy system of the cycle of mistakes learning accountability and change there's an interesting you ever heard the the saying like where your ATT goes your energy flows right or something similar to that right so there's an interesting concept I heard the other day on a podcast called cognitive bundles and it was the exact

[6:39]  same comment this guy who was hosting a podcast said it's so interesting I'll say one thing on the podcast and I'll have people in the comment section who will react and be like you're the greatest person ever I completely agree with what you just said and the other side of that the exact same comment is you're a terrible piece of [ __ ] you should be taken down you need to be cancelled and what they were talking about in this instance was when we are looking for anger when we are looking for the good we can be shown the exact same data set in a comment in a statement or whatever the podcast is and based on how your perception is of yourself is the thing that you're going to see out of that piece of content 100% this is this is the manifestation of and I'm not saying this about any social or political sort of set of values or activities but we have created this at

[7:28]  the ends of the the spectrum of social politics we have you can see my hands it's a bigger Spectrum than that but I was doing this is like you know 8% on either end of that Spectrum left or right right very very Progressive very very conservative however you want to Define it and I don't mean this relative to democracy I mean it socially is that both sides of that spectrum is this adoption of victimhood and if you are a victim of or looking to use that card and I don't say that disparagingly about people who are actually victims of anything I mean the social mentality of like well you said this thing and I'm ready to hear that as a victim well then I'm going to lash out at you and that is not just the quote unquote W or just the quote unquote

[8:15]  magga you know that is that is both at the ends of the spectrum this giant sensitivity to you've hurt me when in fact the the innately or right substantively that thing is innocuous it's benign right like I say I love dogs and there are people who have been bit by a dog and they're like you're traumatizing me and it's like no I just said I love dogs and like that you know what I mean like 100% I can understand that you don't love dogs because you got bit by a dog but I'm not doing something wrong to you by liking dogs or stating that and that's that's the that's the ends of the spectrum that we're really challenged by and that those are the keyboard Warriors do you think in our previous conversation I might have mentioned 2022 Surgeon General comes on to a national broadcast biggest threat to the American society

[9:03]  not another viral pandemic but an epidemic of isolation and loneliness do you think that we spend so much time in this Digital World the average 18-year-old today spends about 9 hours behind their screen meaning they spend more time on their screen than they do asleep meaning they are spending more time literally in a digital world than they are in a dream world we are starting to think about the lack of connection in that space where now we're almost falling into these IDE feels of victimhood because maybe that's a deep down scream for attention and connection for other people to look at us and care about us do you think about that I think about it a lot I used to do a lot of work in this space of trauma being trauma informed understanding how trauma works in the brain that kind of stuff and um you know we have sort of these adverse experiences in our lives and

[9:51]  then we have protective factors right and so what you're describing is the adverse event that is is isolation you know we tricked ourselves even you and I talking online here we're still isolated I'm still alone in this space you're still alone in that space yep um and we've tricked ourselves into believing that we're engaging with people but we're not because there's no energy exchange there's no you know the nonverbals aren't really there I don't know if you're you know you got what's in your environment that's impacting you know like that's we're not connected so if we call that isolation in this context an adverse event in our lives or the adversity of being isolated the the protective Factor balance to that balancing that is

[10:40]  inclusion is community is belonging is connection we don't get to access those protective factors if we believe that this is those things that me on Facebook putting an opinion about a flag or whatever and I've got people liking that or hating it or ever I'm not actually engaging with anybody they don't they don't give a [ __ ] not really um or they're doing the same thing of like I've tricked myself into believing that I'm engaging the truth of the matter is you come out of those exchanges more lonely it it's it's this big I understand that there's convenience in remote work I understand there are some positions that are best remote whatever but we still battle with that in business of like trying to have our employees come back to the office it's not to punish them it's not because

[11:29]  um you can't get projects done online you can get those things done online but the magic of con human connection is where the real world that's where the work happens that's where the good sh comes we've almost fallen for the instant gratification trap give me the Oreo now exactly and it's very difficult to articulate from a leadership perspective that coming together in an office environment although it might be a little bit inconvenient because the world that we live in in society today is all about convenience stuff comes to my door next day or same day with Amazon I can get food groceries everything delivered I don't have to leave my house the human connection the human element of life and business cannot be replaced and I think we need to hear more leaders talk about that human connection rather than the fact that I have the overhead

[12:17]  of rent in the building that I rented out for us with this lease and XYZ because there's no tangible connection to that in The Human Experience well also I don't give a [ __ ] about your rent if I'm if I'm like an employee whose job is to you know make sure that we have the right marketing collateral for things um I promise you my concern isn't whether or not this CEO or that leader um is paying rent the what what I'll say is that the rent's going to get paid anyway and so that's not a reason for me to do something it's like anything else people need to have a reason to do things and I told you so is never one of them if I told you so worked bro we'd have no problems on this planet I agree right there' be no Rebellion against mom and dad there would be no

[13:03]  problems we wouldn't be doing anything if telling people what to do worked then we'd be we'd be clear it would be boring um but we wouldn't have conflict we wouldn't have people um in these positions of isolation Etc because somebody would go onto the Facebook or insta or Tic Tac or whatever the platform is and say hey put down your phone and go play with your friends or go get dirty or go like bre the same ER as other people for a little while and touch somebody with consent but like give give your kid a hug you know get off the screens for a bit then and if people did that then we wouldn't be here but um The Substitute to that is like why I have when I started at this job there's a big whiteboard in our

[13:51]  conference room where all these meetings take place and um I wrote two things on this on this conference in permanent Sharpie um the first one underlined all caps is talk about it just talk about it whatever the thing is just have a conversation um and I'll get to the the email my email perspective in a second if you would let me because I have feelings um and then and then over on the corner in big all caps is why what's the reason why are we doing this thing why are we having this conversation and we miss we miss all of that because we are so entrenched we think that email is a form of communication it's not it's a tool to relay information it's not communication and so I get a

[14:40]  lot of [ __ ] at work about how I'm not responding to emails from somebody who works 40 feet away from me and I have to sort of remind people I mean some of it is just like playful right like give me a heart jabbing me playfully but some of it's real right where people are like well I sent you an email and I'm like well do you remember that five minutes after that I came and sat down in your office and we talked about that thing that you sent an email about um and it's so much richer it's so much more efficient to just have a conversation but we've become so accustomed to I'm going to fire off this email at 1 o'clock in the morning because I can't get it out of my head and then I have some expectation at 9 o'clock in the morning that you're responding to that or if you're up at 5: that you're responding to it and in the meat of that

[15:28]  we're driving Dev between us in our work rather than coming together and collaborating in our work it's it just makes me crazy talk about it eliminates all of the the perception of what is not said do you know what I mean it's very interesting how it's very human to get upset about somebody not doing something that we expect of them but we never told them how what they do actually makes us feel we're always fing in the Gap so it's like talk about it eliminates the Gap well if you create an opportunity for someone's imagination to tell a story it's going to be the wrong one almost every time right and um you know talk about it is is sort of factual and directive have a conversation but it's also even in the stuff you know people

[16:17]  nobody likes conflict you'll meet people who are like hey I like conflict no you don't um you you like uh being a bully if you if you love conflict getting comfortable with conf conflict means um being able to manage through and have a conversation that's difficult the talk about it is not just hey you should talk about it it's also we need to collectively create a culture where there's psychological safety where we can talk about things even if they're hard and I think we're missing that in the world too it's these verbal blows uh often anonymously or whatever that um prevent us from you know what's the actual problem and how do we work together to solve it and if we just don't like if you and I inherently and from a values

[17:05]  perspective disagree on something we have to learn to accept like I'm not changing your mind and you're not changing my mind but where is there also in our lives a place that we intersect so it's not going to be about portapotty or you know whatever random thing um but maybe it can be about the the power of sharing energy with people but I don't you know like Rel to the conversation we've been having no I mean you're right there's the The Human Experience in itself and this is why I love having the podcast is because when we share our ideas and share our stories it's very easy for other people to find themselves in that story or that idea because the Human Experience is a shared one and I feel like it's so easy for us especially in this digital divide I can't believe you even just pointed that out you were like you know although we're having this conversation you're sitting there by

[17:53]  yourself and I looked around and I was like dude it's quiet as [ __ ] here in my house and I really am sitting here with headphones in talking to a screen where nobody else can hear me but I've become used to this element of communication it's uh I hope that we can get past this because it seems like the antidote to the problems that we see in society today are all of us just coming together you know there was a a story I had this guy on the podcast his name is Dr Rob Kelly he's out of Texas he does a lot of substance use and Rehabilitation stuff he has a program that says 97% of the people come through my program don't relapse again which is pretty outrageous to think about right from a St AB I know and so he was talking about he shared a story on the podcast one time he was like you know there was a story about this guy who um went to the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco and ended

[18:40]  up throwing himself off the bridge they he ended up passing away when he hit the water like so many people do unfortunately the police officers brought this guy out of the water they pulled out his wallet which was in his ID they went back to his apartment he wrote a note the note said today is the day where i'm not going to be here anymore there's only one thing that can stop me from doing this on my threemile walk from my apartment to the bridge if one person just looks at me and smiles I'm not going to do it today makes me emotional to think about man it's it's tragic that we can interact in this world with such disregard for each other that's what that is that's just complete disregard for other human beings I make it a policy of mine to

[19:28]  like like I I go to the same gas station all the time in my little town and I know everybody who works there's name I you know how are you doing today what's cooking there's all kinds of verbal stuff but I don't think there's a person in this world who doesn't deserve to be seen and I don't think that there's anything uncool about being kind all the time I mean there are times where like you know you got to tell somebody to [ __ ] off in no uncertain terms you know but um God to walk three miles past people in a crowded City and not have anybody just engage with you smile make eye contact you know is um we're being sucked away from The Human Experience man do you know what I mean it's like I I look I look around every single day and as I've gotten older I become more

[20:14]  observant I look around at everybody and I can't tell you how many times I've missed an opportunity to give somebody a compliment or to have a genuine conversation because everybody's always doing this if you can see the podcast I'm looking down at my phone every social situation every opportunity where it feels a little bit weird we're always going to this device and we're taking ourselves away from this current moment and when I think about the element of distraction that is in our lives today no matter what part of generations you're in you are having your life experience taken away from you because you're spending so much [ __ ] time on this device it's insane to me it's insane I think you know the well here's where it gets complicated the device has a lot of great stuff about it too right like because there are are um times and places where you can't connect with

[21:01]  loved ones and it's a way to do that whether it's you know I I mean I keep in touch with like high school buddies only because of social media right like um I have friends that I we also talk on the phone and see each other but um there are there's there's good in it too I think the problem is that it's it's yeah it's tricked our brains into wiring to allow instead of it being a tool that we use integrated with all the other human connection um it's become a substitute for actual human connection and that's where we've gone wrong I get a lot of [ __ ] out in the world because I'm just like always like trying to hey how you doing um you know like that's just how I live my life and even my wife will be like why do you why do you got to be everybody's friend and I'm like that's

[21:48]  not it's not about being everybody's friend I think it's about it fills my soul to engage with people and and I think it's important for other people and maybe we can model that to a degree in which that person and you know it's the old Chain Reaction domino effect of like if if if I smile at you today Keenan and you were having a hard time and I say how you doing you say I'm not doing so great and I say something like it always gets better right um well that can change your day and then you can take the power of that change and change somebody else's day and it's these little I mean it's so cliche it's these little small acts that I think we built so much of our social construct on that now we're quickly it took a long time time to get to a place where we understood that was an important part of our social architecture and then in a matter

[22:37]  of a decade we've managed to crumble a lot of that architecture we we're taking the're taking the frame out and replacing it with what what we've been talking about pretend it's interesting that I know G down we've gone down yeah but I mean this is an important conversation because I think a lot of people are thinking this and I was going to share a quote which is interesting to me uh it's when we live Our Truth often we show others how they have been living their Li the ability to communicate with others right even like my father is the exact same way um he is the person who is literally chatting up everybody in every single restaurant every single

[23:24]  place of business where our PO Box is at our bank everywhere I walk in they're like hey how's your day he's so funny I love that dudee and I'm like oh man but when I think about the things that I'll remember him for when he's gone it's those elements of him living his truth and me reflecting back on it and being like were you just too chicken to be the exact same way because having a conversation with people and getting out of your shell is scary for a lot but it often brings so much reward when you can share that human connection with other people well it's it's that ability to be vulnerable to the benefit of ourselves and those around us right like cuz it is hard it's hard to be what if they don't like me what if the amount of times that I say hey to somebody or like just a friendly gesture of some kind and they don't even respond or like you know I I somehow frightened them by saying hey I

[24:12]  hope you have a good day you know whatever um I should have taught me not to put myself out there right like um well you're a fool for for being this way and so you people are like well you're just Greg ious or you know whatever the thing is um it actually takes a lot sometimes to move past the the sort of negative interactions and say I'm still going to be friendly to everybody that I see and if they don't like it that's okay that's not I don't have control over that um and like my dad's the same way and it's this thing where it's like everybody's his friend everywhere he goes and um and it's it's hard to do I think people look at it and they go oh it's just so easy it's just who they are no it's a choice you have to make a choice to put yourself out there knowing that the

[25:00]  response may not be as as charitable there's a lot of things that uh you could have done in your life with all of your skills and I know that at one point in time you made a choice to do the work that you do and I want to kind of direct the conversation with the amazing you're doing now we're going to talk now now we're into it so you know in our previous conversation you said you know we as a country do an amazing job honoring and celebrating our veterans but we don't do a great job of taking care of them what does that mean oh uh it means just that like right like we we um I think we say thank you for your service uh a lot I think and that's important I'm not uh I want to be really clear that like thank you for your service uh is mandatory right like Freedom a't free baby so um whether or

[25:51]  not PE we believe that um this one person's actions have allowed us the liberty to live our lives in the way that we want to doesn't matter because that's the intent behind why they engaged in that service and um made the sacrifices they made and so uh thank you for your service is uh really important however um thank you for your service and that we allow for the suicide rate to be as high as it is um means that there's something disconnected between saying I appreciate you and showing I appreciate you and so you know even look at I don't want to speak disparagingly in the VA but that's a bureaucratic system that is letting people down for whatever reasons and that's its own whole podcast with 75 different guests

[26:39]  talking about all of that um and the reality of you know maybe to give an example of um we were at a we were at a um we had a an event in West Texas uh last week and um and had brought along um a couple of our veteran clients to tell their story um about the service dog you know their um connection to Freedom service dogs and this community and you know I'm feeling like man you took time out of your life to come talk about Freedom service dogs with a group of people um all you people that are here have taken time out of your life to support this mission of this organization um I was just filled with

[27:28]  gratitude right it's like pouring out of me and to have the experience of having conversation with Kyle specifically I spent a bunch of time with this guy his dog is Mor it's the cutest partnership um to say you know hey look thank you so much for taking time out of your life to come help with this really appreciate it and to hear and it's not the only time I've heard it but to hear him say no no no no I'm the one who's appreciative for this opportunity to talk about this thing to share my experience to give back to this community that's given so much to me is so humbling and that's that's what I say when we're not we're not taking good enough care of our veterans that's what I mean we're not understanding the impact of what I

[28:17]  mean look at face value a service dog is not a huge thing for the people that are partnered with these dogs it becomes a lifechanging Bond it's the tasks it's the companionship it's all of the things and it is a small gesture in the big in the Big World of um all the things that we could be doing and to see the Gratitude and and people tear up when they talk about their appreciation um of what is again like in the grand scheme of things a small gesture uh says Whoa [ __ ] you all are not getting enough of the of support Community relationships that you need to feel we were talking about this earlier

[29:03]  if you're isolated the answer to that is a sense of belonging and veterans are isolated they come back to this world welcome home veterans um they come back to this world that can be unfamiliar and can be scary and where um you know how do I access these things that I need um that's isolating uh whether you know you talk about PTSD I know people who haven't left their home in a very long time because going out triggers the pts and so let's invite veteran I mean everybody but in this case let's talk about taking care of veterans means inviting them and letting them know they belong and are valued um which is much more than saying thank you for your

[29:51]  service or or having a day one day a year where we're like yeah happy Veterans Day um that's not it's not it's just not enough yeah there's no way a a thank you or a day on the calendar um could ever repay the debt right that these men and women signed up to potentially sacrifice for all of us and I feel like us coming together as a country and recognizing that there are some people who need and deserve more support than others is an honest conversation you know what I mean like we're not all treated equally and we're not all created equally very transparently because some of us choose harder paths and they sacrifice more than other people do and I feel like this element of saying we're all the

[30:38]  same sometimes needs to be challenged you know well look I mean we talk about I want to tell you um the way that a colleague and friend of mine uh talks about the service side of things really quickly um but first I'll say uh when we talk about diversity and that's a big conversation right um people have asked me why is diversity important and it's because we all have unique experience and perspective to add to something and the more of that that we can have the better the outcome of whatever that thing is that we're working toward right like Echo Chambers simply don't work you get the same old [ __ ] um the the power of diversity is not about skin color ethnicity I think those things are relevant but diversity

[31:26]  is about just what you're saying we're all different you and I will see this conversation that we're having here differently right it's impacting you differently based on your life experience and your perspectives and same with me and so let's acknowledge honor and see the strength in how we all see things differently even if we're in the same thing hearing and seeing the same thing we experience it differently and there's value to that and we shy away from it so back to um what Chris Boer said say he's a colleague he's our veteran services coordinator he's a um he's a a Marine combat veteran um he's one of the most impassion people I know around making sure that we're taking care of our veterans and so I learned from him all

[32:12]  the time and he said you know when we sign out for service we write a blank check and sometimes the price on that check when it gets cashed is the ultimate price sometimes it's adding nickels to it every day and either way it just gets big and it's it's incredible that we are not choosing a society to acknowledge the cost associated with the path that is in the best interest of our country to protect our freedoms yeah that's the that's sort of the grounding

[32:58]  that's one way to frame it but that's sort of the grounding of like why we do the work that we do is we have a duty and when I sit here in the gravity of what you're saying it almost makes you question right are and the answer is no but are we doing enough and the answer is absolutely not well I well that will then you say what is enough what is the answer to what is enough and um I think back to the like we all have different experiences and and perspective and all of that wonderful difference that we all have is that um the only way we can get to what is enough is to engage the people who have

[33:49]  the experience of being a combat veteran or being a veteran that has been injured due to their service or made sacrifices all of them um because of their service and I don't think we're doing that I think we say oh here's the deal you get these benefits and you get this thing and you can call this number if you're feeling suicidal I don't think we're doing a whole lot of like what is it that we can do better and so that's a conversation that we're you know need to continue to build on on a national level of um and it's true everywhere it's like what why can't we just listen more to what people need and figure out how we can get there and maybe it's not tomorrow but um we can do an awful lot man if we if we really want to the willingness to listen is something that I've been talking a lot about on the podcast recently um in education in

[34:37]  nonprofits all these different type of things it seems like we have certain people or certain I would say demographics of our society who are making decisions for others with no lived experience and no user input if you will we're creating these Solutions in a vacuum and then taking them to the marketplace and saying here you go and it's like this is great but I can't live underneath this cup you know what I mean I can drink from it and I can eat from it but I can't live underneath this and I need a place to live right now you know it's just a it's an interesting dichotomy at kind of where we're at right now yeah it's it's a cital cancer to say that we have answers to things without involving the people that um have that lived experience in any way it's it's why it's important that we hire our clients we have a a prison program so there are people who are

[35:25]  incarcerated who have gone through a lot of training um to learn how to train these pups they go in in about 8 weeks they're there for about 8 weeks and um I believe so firmly that sure that's that's awesome and it's it's a great part of what we do but why aren let's hire them when they get out and let's listen to their experience and help that inform what we're doing and that's true for that program it's true for our you know let's hire our clients they have the actual experience of having worked here and can help us do it better um and point out that like well you know when I was going through the program you can't just do feedback surveys of people and say like what was your experience like did you know rating one to five did you

[36:11]  like the food um you know you have to you have to bring people into the fold and and let them say when it's safe for them to say so let them say you know I think we're not doing this part right and really truly listen to that um I think the problem we face with so much and it's true about uh a lot of people in leadership space is that they think they're the smartest in the room or that they have to have the answer to things whatever blah blah blah blah blah and it can be very threatening when somebody says hey I think we're not doing this part right um it's very important that we anybody who's in a leadership position whether it's business or football you know the list goes on and on for profit not for-profit doesn't feel threatened by good ideas that weren't theirs and we

[37:01]  have a problem I think in most places where leaders go oh that wasn't my idea so we're not going to do it they don't say that out loud they make up some excuse or whatever and so by bringing people with the lived experience in and allowing a safe enough environment where they can say hey I'm G to challenge this thing because of my experience just makes us better I don't do this [ __ ] for Glory I'm responsible for something and I take that responsibility seriously and so you know you can't I don't think that you can do it right if you're not going to be vulnerable and say I don't know I don't need to know because there's a group of experts in the room I just need to help support them and make sure they have the resources to do the things that they're really good at I feel like this is a huge misconception in the nonprofit space as well you know a lot of people think that

[37:49]  nonprofits are here just because it feels good we want to hand out hugs we're good people we want to have a positive impact but what people need to realize is that this is an actual business that is grounded in impact and we're trying to make things happen here and I know that you had some opinions about that in our last conversation as well oh boy these transitions are um slick the the number of conversations that I have with people you know we're all so I'm like super branded most of the time I've got a you know my blazers got freedom my hats got freedom um and people are like what's Freedom service dogs it's why I brand it all the time right um to create those opportunities for conversation and open up the door and um and bring people into our community and obviously General brand

[38:37]  promotion which is any company and I'll talk to people you know if people engage I'll talk to them for a little bit you know I've got my little elevator pitch I do and um they want to know more information and so I carry business cards with me at all times they have QR codes on them they've got my name and title it's a you know it's a picture of a dog um and so what and it's got my cell phone number on it which people think is wild but I think is valuable um and they'll say oh you're president and CEO of that like what but what do you do for work they'll say to me because of this perception that like we're all volunteers and we all and I try not to be offended because it's just an opportunity to educate but deep down inside I'm like what what do you mean what do I do what do what do you mean this is what I do for work this

[39:24]  is more than a full-time job um and so have to break it down for people and this is how I break it down that nonprofits are businesses um as a CEO of a nonprofit I'm an employer uh I employ you know 65 people I think today and that um yes we're here to fulfill a mission but um it's people's jobs it's people's livelihood it's people's career path it's the same thing as any other company on on the planet the only difference with us aside from Mission which is obvious is that revenue is a different game the expenses are the same as any other business um we're just not trading

[40:12]  anything for money and and that I will say isn't true either you know when we ask people to give money to our cause um and I talk about it with people especially if it's you know someone's sitting down to write a big check um there is a transaction in that you know we're selling an opportunity for people to contribute to something that's really meaningful and that have you you ever given money to charity yeah yeah you're going to also to Freedom at some point in the near future absolutely 100% 100% we'll negotiate that offline and every nickel matters so um but what happens is that how do you feel after you give money to to a mission that you know you care about you feel good you feel like you're contributing to

[40:59]  something bigger than yourself personally yeah we're selling that that's what we sell to our donors right that we we're able to allow people to feel connected to feel that joy to feel you know the contribution isn't just I gave this it's look at the impact of what my $10 what my $100,000 you know whatever it is to you um has and so that impact is changing people's lives you know the stories of people who haven't been in the grocery store in 10 years and now we're going to concerts for the first time and getting back out into the world and you know not worrying about going to bed at night not work worrying about coming home from work and

[41:47]  walking back into their Empty Apartment or home because of that trauma or because of Mobility related risks that exist for people um that's the kind of joy and Independence and freedom that uh you're contributing to when you help support this organization and other ones are like maybe maybe you're making sure someone's got a full belly tonight maybe you're make you know whatever it is that people are supporting that is a that's that's a it's it's filling our cups when we do things for other people and this is like right this organization is one way to do that um there are a million ways to do that so it's not it's not transactional in the sense of you know you hand me this and I hand you that it's more you contribute to this and now you're part of this thing that

[42:36]  is so critically important and feels really good I mean even when we've got problems at work I sleep so well knowing that this little puppy that um is so cute and fluffy one day I bring puppies home from work for like a weekend to my kids and they're like puppy puppy puppy and I'm helping them learn about Service uh right that we're actually responsible for this dog becoming this thing right and so we're gonna we're going to lead with that um that every one of these dogs upy through adulthood is maybe saving a life for sure changing a life to some degree sometimes to a small degree sometimes to a very big degree and um who wouldn't want to be a part of that in whatever

[43:22]  way they can be a part of it you know I smile on my face because one of the cuz I asked you for money cuz you got cuz you got my donation you know I'm already subconsciously writing that check for you guys yeah I rang the little bell over here you didn't hear it you know the thing that I think about which is awesome is we're talking about compassion we're talking about happiness we're talking about connection we're talking about Joy we're talking about creating experiences for other people and this from my perspective is what great leadership is about and in today's society this is what being a true Alpha is really about is being willing to help others create safe spaces for others give people a Podium that they can stand on that maybe they had taken away from them and I think that Society has this

[44:09]  all [ __ ] up right now but it's amazing to see amazing leaders like you who are fighting for the things that truly matter well that's really kind I take issue with the alpha stuff especially because of working with dogs um you know we talk a lot about Alpha's lead the pack um and this is a dysfunction in a lot of leadership these days Alphas lead the pack Alphas are the strongest Alphas are the well let's translate those Alphas lead the pack an alpha wolf is leading the pack but it's the first one going through three feet of snow it's doing the most work so the other wolves can follow in its tracks so that's leadership is plowing through so that other people have it easier to follow you right they're actually working the hardest uh or maybe not the

[44:57]  hardest but they're doing hard work right I hate that working harder than stuff but Al it's not that they're like getting carried around on a throne like us humans have decided Alpha is um they're hustling for the greater good right um the sacrifices that real Alpha people make are significant you look at um every scenario where you can say this human behavior is truly Alpha and I think all right because we're serving veterans let's go to a combat situation um the Ria Alphas are first so more likely to encounter something adverse more likely

[45:50]  to right and and yet as a society we go well the alpha is just this [ __ ] sitting in The Golden Throne telling people what to do and have somehow decided that that's okay and so anytime I hear someone say I'm an alpha male I just kind of scoff and I'm like bro anybody who's truly Alpha in any way would never say that the the the I am I am I report to uh you know let's just say the number is 65 staff members in the context of like who's Alpha like relative to the way we have set it up as a society um they're all Alpha to me they're all the people that I report to that I'm responsible to um good leadership is it doesn't come from the back right good leadership comes from

[46:39]  the front you're pulling not pushing and I think that yeah I think we [ __ ] it up real good sorry about my language but you started Brant yeah uh I think we've messed it up uh pretty handily uh around this idea that machismo or aggression you know those kinds of things are alpha and I wish that we could understand not just to sort of help fix the minds of people who have adopted that in some way I think we'd be a Kinder world if we actually understood what leadership was as a society it's so hard for people to Define what leadership is and what a leader is and what a leader does and I think it's really complex which is why it's hard to Define but it is not barking at people it is not telling

[47:27]  people what to do um it's modeling it's it's showing what vulnerability is for the greater good it's doing the shitty thing for the greater good it's um I can make a lot more money if I was in uh the the for-profit sector uh but and so it's not I'm not I make a living so I'm not you know it's I I want to be really clear I'm not pouting about my income but uh one could argue it's a sacrifice I make financially to do this thing that I'm passionate about it feels good to me so there's reward other than that um but if we could all get behind that a little bit better of like yeah I could be more greedy or I could be more

[48:14]  bossy or I could be more quote unquote respected um there's a cost to all of that and too many people aren't paying it why shouldn't leaders change if the world has changed so much so drastically even in the last 12 years 10 years decade you know what I mean why shouldn't leaders change why shouldn't they change you know like being the definition of alpha back in the day right of being tough-nosed and barking at people and being that guy right was for a world that we don't live in anymore the world has changed and so do the leaders in this new generation have to change as well there's a book that I have on my desk all the time it's a by a guy named Gary V Gary vaynerchuk it's called 12 a half and the subtitle of this book is

[49:01]  leveraging the emotional ingredients necessary for business success and he talks about the great leaders of the future are not going to be the guys who Ru rule with an Iron Fist and are a tyrant like Steve Jobs but they're going to be able to have kind cander compassionate conversations deploy empathy and be able to be curious enough about what the future is going to look like to inspire other people around them to execute on a mission and that in itself is a different def definition of a leader than where we came from in the past a th% and I'm going to challenge you with much love and say the great leaders of ref future are not going to be men or not going to just be you said you know the guys who and I just want to like Ladies as well I think one of the great societal changes is there are more and more women in positions of leadership which challenges a little bit

[49:48]  of that like machismo let's take misogyny aside the sort of um way we do things and it's because women are better critical thinkers women are are socially reinforced to be more compassionate right like I think that we're all equally from birth capable of compassion but so many guys just get it kicked out of them or told you know don't be soft or words I won't use on this podcast or generally because I have a daughter and a wife and sisters and and the list goes on and on um but they hear a lot of that messaging and women don't hear as much of that I think one of the intersections that that I see a lot is where women in leadership positions that came up years ago have had to because of the environment of the men that they were

[50:39]  around had to have this certain kind of way they show up 100% And now that we've gotten to a place with emerging leaders women men Etc that that they are allowed to be be thoughtful and compassionate and and and use critical thinking and use collaborative energy and all those things um I think we're seeing this great shift in what what female leadership looks in spe looks like specifically but then the impact that that has on leadership in general and I and I agree that the I don't know how Steve Jobs you know functioned I was never around the dude but um the you know you do this because I said so again this is like a theme it just does work

[51:27]  it's how can we together find a way to do this thing and what and what are you responsible and accountable for within that and so it takes bravery I think to be in a leadership role and be vulnerable at the same time and it's a choice that we have to make and I think that we're seeing more and more people make it thankfully you know Chris this has been an absolute Joy um having you on the podcast having this conversation has been inred inedible one of the Traditions that we have here on the podcast is our previous guests ask our current guest question when it's all done what impact do you hope your work has on your community can I preface this I know I know like a succinct

[52:14]  answer is good and I'm going to try to get there but I believe our work is about every stakeholder group so the answer different ERS based on those stakeholder groups for our clients specifically I hope the impact our work has is that we do create a community in which people feel like they belong and are connected to and can contribute to in whatever way they need to or want to um which is bigger than a giving somebody a dog right even one of these really incredibly well-trained custom dogs it's that it's that people have a sense of belonging to this community that

[53:01]  we've created and then right you can go down the list and I won't do it all but for staff I want the impact to be that they learn about um their own career pathway and what a healthy business Community can look like and bring that to nobody's staying at Freedom service dogs forever that works there um well maybe people will but I mean a lot of people are going to you know go pursue other things in their lives Etc but that they can bring some of our our the values that we have around respect and vulnerability and conversations and um and compassion out to everywhere so it's that Viral spread uh right and so then you go through

[53:49]  volunteers donors the impact I want for my donors is that they feel like they've helped accomplish those things that they're a piece of that that um because of them ultimately to the clients that impact happens and there are a billion stakeholder groups so I'm not going to waste our time but ultimately it's that um that our community grows in a way that impacts other communities too it's easy to see from the outside looking in how the work that you and the team do every single day the impact is multiplicative you're impacting so many lives you're impacting so many perceptions you're impacting so many different areas of society where we need more support man so Chris I just want to say brother thanks for coming on the show man this has been a blast oh that's

[54:35]  that's the jam it's been a real honor for me too Kenan I hope this isn't the last time we talk I completely agree all right guys everybody who's been tuning in and watching today Chris Nelson man thanks for coming on the show brother really appreciate it that's a wrap thanks k