The Hidden Impact: How Local Nonprofits Transform Voter Turnout by 12+ Points

[0:23]  Brian, we're gonna start off with something a little different. Favorite food, what is it?

[0:23]  Favorite food? that is a good question. salmon.

[0:28]  Okay. Favorite movie.

[0:30]  wow. I'm drawing a blank at the moment.

[0:32]  Okay. Favorite thing to do to turn your brain off from from work? Is it what

[0:36]  Music. I play music, so I I'm mandolin, vocals, whatever. Yeah.

[0:40]  Yeah, what kinda so when you say like this, like you playing instruments?

[0:45]  Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm in yes. Well, I do play guitar. I play guitar for like twenty-five something years, but more recently I play mandolin, which is another stringed instrument. And then I get together weekly with a group of people and we occasionally do farmers markets and stuff like that, public facing games. Just for fun.

[0:48]  Yeah, tell me all the instruments, man. Go ahead, Brian. Really? No, wait. Is is this a thing that people don't know is this a thing people don't know about you?

[1:10]  Most people don't. It's not it's not on my LinkedIn profile. But it gives me joy.

[1:15]  man, so we we got we gotta I actually hold on a second. You'll be happy to know. Look at my guitar here, huh? However, the the difference between me and you is I don't know how to play this thing. That's the difference between me and you. I I tried. I think I broke a string here. trying to tune it myself. It doesn't make any sense. It all sounds the same to me. and this was like years ago. I am much more wiser, and maybe I could probably figure it out. But I was in my early twenties when I was trying to really learn how to play guitar. Guitar and piano.

[1:21]  There you go. Right.

[1:45]  are those two instruments that I I just love how they sound. And I think if if I learn how to play the man I'm I'm a heart throb, you know, at that moment. I love it. Brian, let us know, man. What organization are you representing or what is your role?

[2:03]  Sure. I'm with a group called Nonprofit Vote. I have been the executive director here since I took over in 2014. And the organization basically we work to help nonprofits engage the communities they serve in voting elections. And the underlying principle here is that nonprofits already have trusted relationships, deep community roots, cultural competency. And more with the communities that they serve every day. You know, whether it's a food pantry, whether it's a housing clinic, whether it's a community health center, these are places that are root deeply rooted in the communities that they serve. And they have a an important role in helping those communities participate in the democratic process. And so

[2:27]  Mm-hmm. Got it. And is that the picture behind you, is that like an actual image of

[2:52]  That is from one of the National Voter Registration Day events we helped organize. So we're also the lead. In addition to providing a lot of training and support to nonprofits, we're also the managing partner of National Voter Registration Day. So we bring together a whole giant cohort of 100 plus national organizations and thousands of community groups to host events in their respective communities. This year on September 15th.

[3:09]  Wow, man. And and what brings you to this line of work? You could big probably be doing something else, you know, playing music full time, but you decided that that you also want to stay in that passion and purpose work.

[3:27]  Sure. Well, music doesn't pay bills. It's just for fun. you know, I've been doing this work for a long time. I came to the democracy space, originally doing advocacy and work coalition building. So prior to my tenure at Nonprofit Vote, the last 12 years, which has all been democracy-related work, voter engagement, et cetera, I ran some coalitions, both national and state level coalitions.

[3:40]  Ha ha ha.

[3:53]  That were mostly doing work on income inequality, wealth inequality, tax, progressive tax policies, you know, ensuring adequate revenue for public services. And I think when I was doing that work, not that I wasn't aware of it, but there was this wonderful moment. Once upon a time, way back when I was in Tennessee running a tax reform coalition, and I brought a bunch of members down to the state house, and we were meeting with the state senators, and we had all our graphs and charts, we had fact sheets, and we talked to the senator about this important bill. And the senator just flatly looked at us and said, You're right. I know you're right, but I'm not gonna do it. And it wasn't a question of having the right facts and figures, it was a question of political power, you know. And in his eyes, we didn't have the political power. We did, and the people he viewed as influential were against the proposal. So it didn't matter whether the technicalities of the bill were right. It was a matter, again, the voice and the political power. And so I think that helps inform my work here at Nonprofit Vote, why we are so committed to really, you know, nonprofits, whatever issues they're working on, if the communities they serve aren't voting. They're not gonna have much influence when it comes to advocating for funding for their healthcare programs or expanding policies for affordable housing. You know, we need to make sure the communities that we serve are voting. It's both in the self-interest of the nonprofit, but it also, you know, it usually aligns with the values framework for most nonprofits that are committed to uplifting the communities that they serve.

[4:54]  Mm-hmm. How do people find out about this? Like are you guys just out and about, boots on the ground? Is this something that you guys are partnering up to be in certain locations to tell the story? I mean, I think it's it's pretty cool. And I and you do mention a community being change. If no one it's like you don't know what you don't know and you guys are really trying to share that message. How how do you guys spread it?

[5:55]  Well, I think word of mouth is a very important part of our outreach. we have a lot of national partnerships that help amplify our reach. So we have partnerships with groups like United Way, you know, why, WCA, National Council of Nonprofits, Independent Sector, Goodwill, et cetera, that all take our resources and amplify it and put them out through their networks. We also work with a lot of state associations, state nonprofit associations. We help them build out co-branded toolkits and resources for their networks that they push out to their networks. So I think We really leverage partnerships and collaboration to amplify our reach. And you know, our own email list is maybe 20,000, 30,000 if you include some of our other stuff, which is sizable, but once you add in the the the list and the reach of all these different partner organizations, then we can reach hundreds of thousands and really, you know, affect the sector at large. And so it's it's really leveraging those partnerships to help get the word out. And then yeah, that's part of the way we get stuff done.

[6:57]  A a word I don't hear often, man, is the partnerships. In the nonprofit world, I mean, I think it's needed so much more. And I love that you guys play that 'cause it's being able to use those resources as you mentioned, those partners and really tap into different markets. How are you guys cause you guys are a five one C three as well?

[7:08]  Yes, we are five one C three.

[7:19]  How how do you guys get funding? Is it just philanthropic work? Like are you guys you know out in the community? That that's is a nonprofit helping another nonprofit s with to continue to spread the word. So who's kind of helping you guys?

[7:33]  Right, that that's actually a very good question. And we've actually struggled with it because on one hand, right now we're primarily foundation fund funded. So we have a number of foundations that underwrite and support our work. We have toyed with fee for service work and we do do a fair bit of fee for service work, but it's still probably a a small percentage of our overall budget. so when we do the co-branded toolkits, we often ask partners to help chip in to help cover the cost. If we're doing a training for a partner, we often help, you know, ask them to make some contract, at least pay for our travel if we're going there in person, you know. And so we do get a lot of assistance from the partners that we're working with. but we also know they're also dealing with their own budgets and they're also dealing with their own funding limitations. At the end of the day, we want to make sure the resources are out there.

[14:08]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[14:08]  So that often comes to fine, fine, we'll do it without for no charge. But you know, we usually at least ask and those who are able to, we certainly allow them to help support.

[14:08]  Mm-hmm. That's all that's what the business is. At least ask. You don't know until you ask. being in the nonprofit space myself, I was actually speaking to this leader, and this leader has lived in the community, has gone to this school, has been on the hall of fame of this that the organization pretty much built this hall of fame, right? And he's on it. So that means there's a lot of opportunities where the ask should have happened. And it didn't. And then when I spoke to him recently, he's like, you know, Ephraim, I'm always willing to give, but no one's asking. How important is is asking, huh?

[14:08]  Yeah. that that's that's the that's the core of all good fundraising work. You know, I I remember going through many, many fundraising trainings and and that's usually where people fall short. They go, they tell someone all about their work and then they never get around to saying, and will you give five thousand, ten thousand, whatever, you know, five hundred, whatever the ask is. It we've got to be comfortable putting that ask out. It's our responsibility to make the ask. It's their responsibility to make a decision. Yes, no, fine. Either answer is fine. But if we don't ask, then we don't even give them the opportunity to say yes.

[14:08]  I actually very early on, I was maybe twenty two, twenty-three years old, I met a a realtor and at that, you know, that age I just was probably chasing money. And I was like, Hey man, I want to be a realtor. Like I'm seeing where he's living, I'm seeing all these different things. I said, How do I become a realtor? 'Cause this this seems like where I need to go. But he also knew that I was in a nonprofit space because I've asked him, you know, sometimes to like sponsor some shirts or whatever that may look like. And when I told them I wanted to get in real estate, he says, Efraine, real estate is a career and you're in the asking business. He says, All you have to do is go ask. Someone is waiting to give you a million dollar check. You just haven't got there yet. And you know, that that kind of stuck with me because we're talking about it right now, right? Is that we we have these goals and sometimes we just gotta be patient and continue to knock on those doors. Sometimes two, three, four, five times. It's very hard because hearing the no's sometimes you you just take it, it beats you up. How do you overcome those no's, Brian?

[14:08]  You know, it's my first, well, it wasn't my my first job, but right out of college, well, right out of college at a different job, but a little bit out of college, I I ended up working with a canvassing operation. And and and we went door to door. We were door to door. We were talking to people about utility rate issues, about you know, government accountability and and things like that, and raising money. And and you know, If there's one valuable lesson I learned there, it was what I call emotional stamina. It's the ability to have 10, 15, 20 people tell you no, slam the door, and still be smiling when you get to door 15, 16, right? yes, we're getting some great support in the neighborhood. Let me tell you about this important bill, you know, and and yeah, because if you don't, you gotta be able to take those no's.

[14:08]  Yep. A and how do you get to the point where asking becomes easy? Because some people don't know how to they they're afraid to ask, right? Like to me, I feel like I don't have me go ask any questions. I just want to tell the stories. Because some people just don't do it. If someone says, Hey, that's not my thing, but I I'm willing to take some tips and tricks on how to make this easier, what do you tell them, Brian?

[14:08]  As far as how to make the ask, well, obviously you're making the case, you're talking about the work, and you're usually tapping into something that they're passionate about. And I think you're trying to find alignment, right? you know, it's it's not a one-way pitch. I yeah, okay, sure, when we were doing the door-to-door canvassing stuff, that's pretty one way, right?

[14:08]  Mm.

[20:14]  a lot of online stuff is pretty one way. But when you're doing the real ask, when you're talking to a foundation, when you're to officer, when you're talking to a major donor having coffee, it's a two-way conversation. You're really listening to find out what their passions are and and articulating the pieces of your work that align with those passions and connecting the dots and helping them connect the dots. And then and then the gift isn't an ask. The gift is an opportunity for them to fulfill their their goals.

[21:48]  Love it. Love it.

[23:23]  I mean, that's where you want to get to. You want to get to the point where it's not a benevolent gift to you to support this thing because you ask. Yes, you have to ask. But it's more that they see how giving this gift to you will help them fulfill their goals and their passions. Does that make sense? Yeah.

[24:57]  100%. And leads me to the next question. Brian, you talked about what drives them, w what fuels them to want to give in this in this case. Share with me a story, man, that that that lights you up every time you say it and that really is impactful. So people can actually understand the impact that is happening when you're doing the the work with different organizations, spreading the word. what are some of the things you've seen come out of it?

[26:32]  As far as I mean all this work has has stories that inspire us. And you know, I think I've been doing this work for a long time, thirty, thirty-five years now. and there's dry spells. You'll go through times where it's just your slogan. but then you have the wins. And an important part of sustaining this work, I think, is celebrating those wins, acknowledging those wins, and boy, when they come, you relish You just, you know.

[28:06]  Mm-hmm.

[29:41]  and so, you know, again, like early on, I think one of my first jobs out of college, I ended up heading up. This is this is different, this is really reaching way back, but you know, ended up organizing on this environmental justice issue, a community that was pushing back against a hazardous waste mixing and blending facility being located in their community.

[29:41]  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, go ahead, go ahead. I'm listening.

[29:41]  And we had hundreds of people marching on the governor's mansion. We would have, you know, 300 people holding a vigil on the on the levee. we would when the public hearing came, and the public hearing is full of epic stories, but we had 400 people jammed in this high school gymnasium, kept the DEQ, Department of Environmental Quality officers there until like three in the morning, when the testimony finally wound down. And then one day we get a call at the office saying that the governor wants us to be present at the press conference. And we all looked at each other, we're like, the only reason the governor wants us there is because he's going to deny the permit. They they're not going to bring us there to say they approved the permit, right? And sure enough, it was we won that campaign. And it was and you know, it was just an inspiring, beautiful moment that that keeps me going. And I think. when we talk to the folks that we work with, whatever the issues, whatever passions are, we got to find those victories. And sometimes it's not the huge victory like that. Sometimes it's, hey, we got 500 people on a webinar. Woo-hoo. You know, there's there's there's much smaller victories that are also worth celebrating. That we got you know that we had a well attended event, that we got one senator to move their vote. You know, these are all things that we need to celebrate and keep our work going.

[29:41]  love it. And to kick if we can go back even further, 'cause I know you went back a little bit, what gets you into this line of work, man? Like were you this guy in school, just like maybe part of SGA and felt like you were part of the politics? Like how does Brian get here?

[29:41]  Yeah. no, was not an SGA. I was not one of those those kids. and in fact

[29:41]  I wanted to be by the way. It just the c I said I wanted to actually be a part of the SGA, but the commitment my mom wouldn't allow me to like do the after schools. but here we are still doing this kind of work, right?

[29:41]  Yeah. I actually have a You know, a lot people come to this work for a lot of different reasons. And rarely is it because they read a compelling fact sheet. Ooh, that changed their life. Usually it's because of something more profound. Maybe they had a great mentor, could have been a parent, could have been a teacher. a lot of people come to this work through lived experience, you know, being on the receiving end of injustice. I came to this from a place of relative privilege, interrupted by A tra tragic eye-opening experience that really changed my life, right? and you know, both of my parents worked in finance. I grew up in the deep south. and and so they we had hired help in the house pretty much all the time, who helped us, who made sure we got fed, got on the bus, made sure when we got off, we did our homework until our parents got home, right? one of those women was a name by a woman by the name of Rita.

[29:41]  Mm-hmm.

[29:41]  And I didn't know at the time, but Rita was apparently dealing with some issues of domestic violence. I didn't know because I was 11 years old, about to turn 12, until her husband pushed his way into our house and unfortunately gunned her down in front of my brothers and myself. And so I was this 11-year-old kid about to turn 12 holding a towel to her neck trying to stop the bleeding. she didn't make it. And while that issue was about domestic violence, really.

[29:41]  Yeah.

[29:54]  For me, it became a reflection point around privilege and why my life was so fundamentally different from hers. And so for a lot of my youth, I kept going back to that as sort of the touchstone, as this point of reflection, is why is it that her life was so fundamentally different from mine? I didn't do anything to earn the the comforts I was in. I was a kid, right? I I nice middle class, air conditioned, suburban home.

[30:08]  Mm-hmm.

[30:21]  and I knew she was in a very working class core sort of shotgun house. I didn't do anything to earn my privilege other than being born white, middle class at the time that I was. And she didn't d do anything to deserve where she was born into other than being born black in the fifties, you know, in the deep south. she was twenty-six at the time she was gunned down, so she was fairly young. and And so I reflected on that for a long time and I I developed that healthy skepticism, which goes back to that civics thing. Yes, I I understood it, but I also had a lot of doubts because I knew there were so many inequalities baked into the system that I could not reconcile. And it wasn't until I got into college that I really got to the point where I figured out how to turn that into activism and change. You know, got involved in a lot of student organizing work around different issues. And then eventually, first job out of college was that

[30:35]  Yeah, yeah.

[30:41]  Campaign south of Avon Rouge that we won. And that sort of sealed my fate. And really, for the last 35 years, this is what I've been doing.

[30:48]  how you feel about innovation and AI to be able to spread the messages even more broader? But people just need know what to go look for, what to go search.

[30:55]  Yeah. I think you know, I'm glad you brought that up because I I think there's and this gets really back to the work of nonprofit vote, because I think information is the problem we have right now in our society is that so much information is national, very little information is local. and so people know all about what's going on at the US at the you know, in at with the Supreme Court, they know all about what

[31:02]  Mm-hmm.

[31:09]  the president's doing and and you know the White House, they know woefully little about what their state legislators are doing, what their city council's doing, what their mayor don't even know who their mayor is, you know. and I think that's where information breaks down. And one of the things that nonprofits are really good at is connecting the dots with local issues, right? A lot of the issues that nonprofits work on are local. They're also national. Obviously a lot of the stuff at the national level is having a profound impact on nonprofits as well.

[31:15]  Mm-hmm.

[31:22]  but a lot of the things nonprofits work on are local, right? affordable housing requirements, whether it's 10%, 20%, that's usually a city council decision. Perhaps informed by some state legislation, right? where to build new affordable housing, where to build transit. That's all made at the city level, right? public safety, when you call it talk about You know, police accountability, public safety, whatever lens you're viewing it through, the sheriff's local. They're often elected locally. Those are if they're elected, if they're not appointed by the the city. but those are all nonetheless local decisions and nonprofits, again, are deeply rooted in the communities they serve. A lot of the kind of activities that we looked up with nonprofits is to help break down that information void.

[31:29]  Mm-hmm.

[31:36]  That information gap. when you look at the way people vote, and you can see this is part of the reason. This whole thing that it's the nationalization of information, it's part of the reason why a lot of people vote when the presidential race is in midterms, and very few vote when it's local election time. It's not that people don't care about the city, they don't care about the schools, it's not that they don't care about the transit systems or the The housing policies is that they're unaware that there's even an election taking place, much less who's running for that. It's not part of the information pipeline that we usually get on our social media. It's not part of the information pipeline that we see on CNN or whatever news station we're watching. Right. And so nonprofits can help fill that gap. A lot of the nonprofits we work with, you know, one of the things we talk to people about doing is hosting candidate forums.

[31:43]  Mm-hmm.

[31:50]  You know, how can you help your community know about what these candidates stand for? So, yes, nonprofits can get people registered to vote, they can do all that stuff. They can also partner with a local League of Wind voters or some other groups to host a candidate for. Bring in the city councillors, bring in the mayors, bring in the state legislators, whoever those people are, to help inform the community about where they stand. They can distribute voter guides. and help provide that and fill that information gap so that people can one make informed decisions about these local elections and also it increases the likelihood that they're gonna vote at all. You know, the fact that because a lot of times people don't vote in these elections because they just don't feel like they have enough information to vote.

[31:50]  Mm-hmm. Yeah. I got a question. I I don't even know if you want to go here, but do you know who the mayor of New York is right now?

[31:50]  Mamdani.

[31:50]  Yeah, how did you know that?

[31:50]  That's he's national. He is national. He's well known nationally. But could you tell me who the mayor of Waltham, Massachusetts is?

[31:50]  The dude is no, no, no. and the only reason I asked that is because I don't I'm not from New York, but I felt that he did a really good job when we talk about communication. And communicate like to me, I found them on TikTok. And now like, you know, it's like everyone's talking about this guy. To me, I think he's now a presidential candidate at some point, right? When you talk about the national level. But you think that it was a national thing? Because people are saying that he came out of nowhere and I I thought it was just that he did a really good job being relatable and telling the story and to me transparent. But I don't know. I'm f again, this is all social media. What what do you tell me, O Brian? When we think about those type of individuals, to me is you are right. We have to tell a better story. Is it that we just don't communicate at a level that we should be? social media wise, is that we're not using some of the resources that are in front of us. Cause I think that's what kind of almost got him over, is that he was just doing a lot of these content pieces.

[31:50]  Well, I think, you know, all political figures have a moment where they a breakthrough moment, right? Where they suddenly get the public's attention. who is this person? No one knew who he was until a certain time for he made a few actions. He he broke through and got into the national sphere where people noted that.

[31:50]  Mm.

[31:50]  in President Obama's case, I think it was the 2008 speech he gave before the DNC. No one knew who he was, or very few people knew who he was prior to that. All of a sudden, boom, he burst into the scene and people were talking about him. There was buzz. Trump had his own moments, right? you know, obviously he's been a well-known figure for a long time, but you know, he's had his moments where he's had his breakthrough moments, and everyone had talked about him. All political candidates at some point have a breakthrough moment. And I think

[31:50]  Mm-hmm. True.

[31:50]  And part of that is because it's almost like the national media is a big funnel. There's a lot of important stuff going on, but only a few things actually break through and get the broad public attention. and so we want to make sure that the conversations people are having is not just what makes it through the funnel, but all those issues that are going on beneath that funnel that that that that often get dropped and don't make it through onto the headlines of CNN or or you know.

[31:50]  Mm-hmm.

[31:50]  Fox News or whatever outlet people are following, is that you know, there's much deeper conversations that we need to have about housing policy. There's deeper conversations that you're not gonna see in mainstream news. There's deeper conversations we need to have about you know, hunger and nutrition and what type of food security programs we feel are needed. nonprofits that are on the front lines of that work are well equipped to have those conversations. They're experts in it, they're they're they're they're dealing with these issues every day in the communities that they serve. And so some of the nonprofits that we work with are doing things like, you know, they organize a campaign called Vote in Hunger, right? They're kind of linking these issues to policies that are To their nonprofit. And that's the way in which they can engage in a nonpartisan way. And that's an important thing. We didn't talk about this, but you know, everything a 501c3 does is strictly nonpartisan. What nonpartisan legally means is you cannot support or oppose a candidate for public office. You can still take positions on issues. You can take strong positions on voting rights. That's not partisan. You can take strong positions on housing, that's not partisan.

[31:50]  Mm-hmm.

[31:50]  these issues are not issues are not partisan. Candidates is when it becomes partisan. So the nonprofits can do important work educating their voters about how to register, what the options are for voting. Can they vote early in their state? Do they have mail-in voting? what are the election day rules? They can distribute nonpartisan candidate guides that. Provide an unbiased view of the candidates. And there's a lot of work that nonprofits can do that is not partisan, that is purely giving people the tools they need to exercise their voice. And as I noted earlier, it's in the interest of the nonprofits, because if the community I serve as a nonprofit is voting, I'm gonna have more influence in advocating for policies. It also aligns with our mission as a nonprofit. And I think that's fundamentally different from what the candidates and parties are doing.

[31:50]  Mm-hmm.

[31:50]  Because when the candidates and parties are out there doing voter engagement work, they're not trying to build an inclusive democracy. That's not their goal. The goal of a campaign is to win. And so they're gonna get to whatever it takes to get to 50 plus one to win, which means they're gonna focus what limited resources and money they have on contacting people with a history of voting and people that align with their candidates' values, right?

[31:50]  Yeah.

[31:52]  That's where they're gonna focus their efforts. And what that means is communities that don't have a history of voting, maybe they haven't voted in a few election cycles, they're labeled as an unlikely voter in the roles. So campaigns don't contact them. They don't have the money to contact them. They're trying to win an election. those can't those voters don't get contacted. They don't get contacted, they don't vote. They don't vote, they're labeled as an unlikely voter. And this cycle keeps repeating itself. Nonprofits are approaching this from a very different angle because we're we're not looking at the candidates. We're looking at are the communities we serve voting? Yes or no? To the extent the answer is no, we are working to help ensure that they have a seat at the table. And that has nothing to do with, well, it the fact that they haven't voted is all the more reason for us to contact them, not to ignore them. Right. And because we have this fundamentally different motivation and a fundamentally different set of drivers, it leads to a very different set of outcomes. And we've seen that in the data. Right, we've done analysis of nonprofits and shown that after they engage the communities they serve, communities that are engaged by nonprofits in either registration, get out to vote, or whatever these communications are, we had a comprehensive program we analyzed. So they registered, they also did some election reminders. The voters who are contacted by these nonprofits voted at 10 percentage points higher than comparable voters in the same communities. Huge impact. We know it works.

[31:54]  It's big difference. Yeah.

[31:56]  And the impact was even bigger among groups that historically don't vote. So black voters or young voters or Latino voters who were contacted by nonprofits voted at 12, 13, 15 points higher than comparable voters. And so, you know, we we do know this has a very positive impact on turnout. It's aligned with nonprofits, it's fully legal, it's important, and it's critical for nonprofits to do it. That's what we, that's what we're really focused on here at nonprofit at doing it.

[31:58]  I love it. I always, you know, going back to the line of we don't know what we don't know. I was very educated. you gave me a lot of education today to really take from today. but also for people to that are listening or watching to take away as well. And I and I'm I kind of it's this whole time you're talking, I'm like, is he on TikTok sharing this information? Like or some social You gotta be on social really sharing some of this information because you are right, people don't know what they don't know, and you just telling these stories. And thinking about where TikTok is is at, is becomes the next like education level, right? People are looking at all like people are really searching on there for educational things. And you, first of all, you can tell a story. I'm listening to you. I'm like, yeah, you know, you just have this voice that just gives me, I wanna listen. so if you guys are not doing it, Brian, I suggest that you, your team, showing some of these things that are really happening because people don't know what they don't know, you know. And I I love that you you've committed to your life to really informing people to inspiring others to do work that they never thought probably was even possible. Brian, what words do you leave someone that may not even know they have this within them, but realize that there is a need. You're speaking to that young Brian, maybe that doesn't even know this job is possible. What do you say to that individual before we wrap it up?

[32:00]  Well, I think it goes back to that that that lesson we talked about about parents, you know, instilling that value that you shape the world, you shape your own destiny, you shape to a degree. Obviously you don't have total control, but you certainly have a lot of influence over what impact you have, over what what you do and how you use your time. And so yeah, what are the things we can do to make for a make a better world? What are the things we can do to build a more inclusive democracy? Again, tying back to the work here of nonprofit vote. And to extend that to people who are out there in the nonprofit space already, you know, how can we be better at what we do? How can we do more than deliver services? You know, and that goes to the work of nonprofits. There are some nonprofits that view their role as we just help hunger, that's it.

[32:02]  Mm-hmm.

[32:05]  They don't really look upstream to what's causing hunger or, you know, and they avoid that for whatever reason, you know, maybe it's various reasons people do that. I think it's incumbent upon us to say, how can we work to achieve the missions of our nonprofits in a way that is lasting, in a way that is systemic? And that means, yes, we're delivering services. We have to do that. That's important. But we're also looking at upstream. What are the things that are causing hunger housing, these issues that our nonprofits are addressed on, and how can we impact that? And that really means at some point we have to get engaged in the policies that drive hunger housing, food security, public health, et cetera.

[32:27]  Mm-hmm.

[32:49]  but it also means we're we're we're civically engaged with the communities that we serve as partners. And so we bring the communities that we serve in, and that's where the voter engagement work nonprofit vote does comes in, is we have a role in ensuring the communities we serve have a seat at the table in deciding the issues that impact their lives and the very reason they're coming to your nonprofit, whatever that may be. You know, children's services or family services or food security.

[33:20]  Love it. Yeah. I appreciate all this. I appreciate this conversation. Where can people find go? What's the website? I think it's nonprofit.org. Correct me I'm wrong. Is that where they can find all this information? There you go. Nonprofit vote dot org. There you go. I appreciate it, man. I is there socials? I know we talked about socials, are they?

[33:51]  It's nonprofitvote.org. So yes, always gotta leave with that vote. But vote's gotta be part of it. So nonprofitvote.org. Yes. And that reached to the website. Yep. yes, I believe all our socials are NP vote. So Facebook.com slash NP vote, you know, whatever you can generally do NP vote as the handle for most of our social handles. But yes, we pretty much most of the social channels were represented on it. And I would encourage folks to follow the social channels because you'll get updates about important policy things, about new resources we have. But also visit our website where you can sign up for free webinars. And we also have a a vast library of fact sheets, everything from staying nonpartisan to complying with state registration rules to you know just running an effective program, concepts like reverse door knocking, things like that.

[34:23]  Love it. Brian from Nonprofit Vote. Make sure you guys go check out nonprofitvote.org for more information around what's happening, not just that he's mentioned nation, but also happening local in your own communities. I'm Efrain. This is the Hard and Hults Podcast. We'll catch you in the next one. Latest.