The ONLY GOOD thing that came out of the world shutting down | HR Heroes S1 E2

[0:00]  now that the pandemic has finally calmed down mental wellness and mental health is finally coming to the front of where it should have been to begin with now people understand what mental health is people understand that they need to take care of themselves um people understand HR is kind of a good Department to have leaders are finally coming to the front and saying we need HR we we need these people to invest back into our team members but we don't know how all right guys welcome back to another

[0:47]  episode of the heart and hustle podcast on this podcast we talk about the heart and the hustle necessary for business and life success now today is a very special event because we have a brand new episode in our HR hero series and I have Thomas Jepson with me Thomas is a human resources hero if you look at his LinkedIn profile he is a founder and HR consultant with Nevada HR Thomas thank you so much for joining me man I really appreciate it thank you for having me I'm excited for for the discussions we're about to have today Yeah man so you know you and I connected because when I reached out to you and talked about this entire event in our HR hero series I talked about the human element being lost in HR and it seemed like that's something that you really really resignated with so before we kind of dive into that topic why don't you give

[1:34]  everybody a little bit of background about yourself as I looked at your background I saw that you were an HR or a business officer and an HR Manager with five star Senior Living so I really want to take a deep dive into that because I have an extensive history in the senior living space and I know during the pandemic it must have been incredibly challenging to be a HR leader in that space with all the turnover and everything that was going on during the pandemic but I also saw that you are a human resources manager for Max Casino as well which is incredible and then oh so sorry sorry Thomas I have this dog trying to jump on me I'm going to toss her down okay I have this dog okay speaking his toy in front of me so all right um restarting so I saw that you were a human resources manager at Max Casino so I want to learn a little bit more about that and also a human resources general or a human resources generalist at Nevada legislature as well

[2:23]  so you've held a ton of different roles in the HR space and Leadership space why don't you give us a little bit about your background and how you got into the HR space in general yeah um I like most HR professionals I was kind of like thrown into HR um I kind of started my HR career with managers not really knowing how to run a business like how to run a team and I always had the niche of supporting my team members and I I I feel like I always managed my teams differently and I I finally asked myself the the question of what can I do to to to improve these processes with everyone right um and so I was you know 18 at the time I I wanted to get into HR cuz that's that's how I saw myself fixing things um and so I I kind of worked my

[3:13]  way into companies that were desperate for for somebody to be HR um and so I kind of threw myself to the wolves and in in all of my positions um you know at Max Casino and with five star Senior Living they all didn't really have that that HR Support person within the position um that they had before and so I kind of came in with fresh ideas and and energy and they kind of hired me because they were desperate and I kind of knew what I was talking about and so I I took advantage of it um you know to be quite honest I I took advantage of of how desperate they kind of were so that I could get the experience that I needed right um so it was like five St in year living you know it during the pandemic I

[4:01]  had no idea what was what was going on I was fresh into HR I was learning all trying to learn as much as I possibly can um I was studying for my a at the time um and I was I was fresh on the Block and then you know you throw in the pandemic with like daily changing laws and um just sadness and depression from both like a resident standpoint because they couldn't see their family members and team member standpoint cuz they also couldn't see their family members and it was just sad all around um and so I kind of took that as as my opportunity to change things um and then see where we go you know you could all you I wanted to experiment and covid-19 was kind of the perfect experimenting time because they needed help and I needed

[4:49]  help um and so I kind of ran with initiatives um and employee recognition programs um I did everything I could to make sure that my team m members were okay you know our without our team members especially in healthcare they're taking care of people who are sad and depressed and lonely and can't do things for themselves sometimes and that takes a toll um you know in in healthcare like it it takes a big toll on people especially when you have residents passing and so I came in and said we have we have to fix things we we have to make sure our team members are okay we're supporting our team members cuz they're supporting business line they're supporting our residents and our residents are the ones paying our bills um so we implemented kind of on a

[5:36]  smaller basis like one-on ones and and adopted kind of different ways of handling stress um you know T members were working long hours and so we made it fun um we went out and like bought everyone food um they would eat from our kitchen um you know so many things like that we talked to resent family members and said this is what what we're doing for this is what our team's doing for your residents do you want to help hitch in for things and I think that brought a lot of Happiness towards our resident family members because they saw or our our team members because they saw family members thanking them for doing a thankless job um and it was just getting everyone to support our team in a in a time where there was no support

[6:25]  there was no thank you there was anger and and Madness because we couldn't let resident or um family members see their residents cuz we didn't know what covid-19 was you know we were assaulted we people like threw stuff at windows and and threatened to call it cops and it was just horrible because no one understood what was going on but all our team knew was that they need to protect our team or our residents um and so it was super important for me to kind of come in and make our managers aware that we need to focus on our team members and less about the operation side of things because operations is changing at a day-to-day basis I I don't even know what would what went on our managers don't know what went on but what I do know what's going on is our team members

[7:11]  need help and and they need to make sure that we're popping in and saying are you okay um what do you need from me do you need a hug do you just need a vent do you want a punching bag like name it like let's let's do something it was funny like one of our our Christmas party our holiday party we got piñatas with like dodgeballs in it and we took a bat and and we started hitting the pinata we got six of them we started hitting piñatas and then we played dodgeball and it was just it was a really nice stress reliever and just something fun and not something you know normal companies do I think OSHA would have a problem if you started throwing dodgeballs at people but it's just something that we we needed to do um and I mean it it got to a point where I think I burned myself out caring for for

[7:59]  everybody else and you know no one really caring for me right um I'm sitting here advocating for everyone and and I took advantage of my own mental health um and so that's when I found Max Casino um and I did same kind of similar things there we were on the the tail end of covid-19 luckily um and it was a perfect time because like I said they didn't have an HR department at all um and so I kind of came in and with fresh ideas and I'm like this is a clean slate let's see what I'm made of let's see what we can do for these team members who haven't had support in Forever Thomas where did your where did your passion for HR because in our early part of the conversation you said you know I'm 18 years old and I wanted to find a way to fix these businesses so how does an 18-year-old recognize that it's a

[8:48]  people first mentality to be able to start transforming a business like what was that Enlightenment process for you like very early on um I've always dealt with like um like my own kind of mental health issues and I knew it was a problem and I knew that the way people like managers treated other people it just wasn't okay um and I knew that there needed something to be done about it um and so you know me being the 18-year-old that I was and I knew I wanted to help people I just I didn't want to be a nurse I didn't want to be a doctor um I didn't want all that medical debt or that school debt um but I knew I wanted to help people and I'm like well how can I best help people and HR kind of like found me you know HR is in a in a unique

[9:39]  position where if it's aligned right within the company I have the opportunity to change every single person within that company change every single one of their lives and I think that's a unique honor and an amazing responsibility you know as a manager you're just in charge of like your own little Department right you're your umbrella you're you're closed in but as HR I can I can change everyone's lives um with like a you know amazing policy or perks or benefits or just talking to people but I can have that impact on people um and at the end of the day I want people to remember me as someone that impacted not just their life but everyone else's lives too um and so that's kind of where that that started I

[10:26]  went to you know the position that had that could have the biggest impact and I kind of ran with it I mean being an 18-year-old and jumping jumping head first into HR but then the compounding factor of the pandemic is a really scary combo because when the pandemic first occurred we as a business were doing a ton of work inside of assisted living facilities and skilled nursing facilities right all of the sudden do shut literally nobody's allowed to come in nobody's allowed to come out I still remember vividly seeing the news stations talking about people standing at the windows and communicating with their loved ones and so back in the day we actually started a virtual visitation program where we started doing out iPads in Zoom so people could talk to their loved ones on camera and like that small sense of connection was huge but I want

[11:13]  to dive a little bit deeper into what were some of the challenges from like a mindset and mental health perspective that your team was facing during the pandemic knowing that they were just trying to protect their residents but then you had family members who were upset were you not letting them out they weren't allowed to come in like what was that dichotomy like especially being so young um you know our our team members obviously like you said they were they were focused on and helping our residents making sure that we didn't get Co in the building and when you work in healthcare it's a thankless job as it is you know you don't people don't come up to you and say thank you for what you do um it's more of like you need to do better and you know I pay this amount of money you need to do better and so it was a thankless job as it is and then we know we shut our doors and our family

[12:02]  members couldn't tell what our what our team was doing all they knew was they were locked out they couldn't see their family members they they couldn't do anything and you know at the time we didn't have the capability to do Zoom because we had just locked our doors iPads were still being delivered you know trying to teach people how to use zoom when they're 80 and 90 years old tough job was a complication in of itself but also teaching our team members how to use zoom because a lot of them had no idea either so you know it was like the blind leading the blind and so our team members were sitting here being yelled at constantly by like residents and and family members saying how dare you do this and they were being verbally assaulted and physically assaulted at one point and you know how do you go into a job where you know

[12:49]  you're going to be yelled at you know people are going to hate you for doing your job for protecting them and they're not going to understand that some of them did and but you know for the for the most part they didn't understand that and you know it was unfair to our team members at at one point but hearing all of their stories too and like trying to be that mediator between team members and and them trying not to flip a lid on on people um and trying to remain professional and and trying to Mentor them and saying I don't think you understand what they're going through and trying to get our team members to understand the bigger picture while also trying to them down to a point where they don't you know flip a lid um it it was hard cuz I mean I was 1920 at the

[13:37]  time I was going through my own stuff um and no one really saw that because I I had to be strong for everyone else because no one else could be strong for each other um so I had to be the strong one and I had to make sure my team members were okay and I was the one that they came and cried to to vent and to you know learn all about their troubles and their struggles and then they come to work and be yelled at you know it's not good for me for your mental health right and so it was hard because the managers were also doing the same thing they had no idea what was going on they looked to me as if like I knew what was going on but I didn't I was just the one guy that knew how to use zoom and we kind of ran with it and it was hard it

[14:23]  was it was weird coming in because like I said I was I was young I had no idea what I was doing but it was also such an Awakening because I can now use everything that I learned during covid-19 and being thrown to the wolves and and being shredded by the Wolves at one point and now I can help other people now that the pandemic has finally calmed down mental wellness and mental health is finally coming to the front of where it should have been to begin with and a lot of people you know they hate Co and and everything but while it was a horrible and deadly virus I also think it was kind of a necessary evil right it was a necessary evil because now people understand what mental health is people

[15:12]  understand that they need to take care of themselves um people understand HR is kind of a good Department to have and so like you know job security for me um you know leaders are finally coming to the front and saying we need HR we need these people to invest back into our team members but we don't know how um and so it was like you said it was a necessary evil um but during during covid-19 I draw a blank because it was just there was a lot there was a lot of crying there was a lot of Tears it was you know during the whole process I attempted suicide twice and no one saw that um because I had to remain strong right because no one else was going to and I knew I couldn't let my team members down

[15:59]  because they needed me more than I needed myself um so it just it was a whirlwind but um nothing that I would want to relive but I also wouldn't go back and and take any and take any of it back for granted um because it was it was a necessary evil and I think it got us to a good place now I think you're a th% right you know one of the discussions that we often have on the podcast is kind of the the fallacy that leaders themselves don't deal with mental health struggles right they're often put in the position of like everything is good and we maintain this mask where we have to be smiling we have to be supportive but many people don't recognize that often the subconscious behaviors that our leaders demonstrate trickle down right and as we speak to different leaders on

[16:47]  the podcast and we hear about these different challenges when it comes to mental health struggles in the organizations who you consult with today do you see any organizations that have leaders that maybe struggling internally themselves but always kind of push forward an idea of mental Wellness but they're not really walking the walk what kind of Trends do you see with the type of organizations that you engage with um yes I I I see a lot of leaders I see a lot of managers let me get that correct I see a lot of managers that haven't really yet dived into being a leader and I think there's a major difference right one like you're managing operations and you're managing people and you shouldn't really be managing people you should be leading them to success and so they haven't really taken that leap yet and a lot of managers and and some leaders that I see

[17:35]  they weren't brought up with the idea that it's okay to not be okay they weren't brought up with the fact that um it's a blessing to even have a you know to have team members that want to work for you they were brought up with the idea that you should be lucky to even be working um and that you should be lucky that we even pay for your medical benefits and you know you should be lucky we even give you a week of PTO that like that's the mentality right like they weren't brought up with not with mental health being in the Forefront and so I think at one point they're struggling to understand like all of this you know new age stuff that's coming to to surface that should have come to surface long time ago but they're they're trying to struggle with it because I think they have some internal internal struggles themselves with their own mental health and I think

[18:24]  that they're trying to keep that facade they're trying to keep that fake face um and saying everything's going to be okay when it's not um and so I see a lot of leaders just kind of put it to the side and and say you know what if you're not okay then we can find someone that will be okay and I think it it's tough trying to change their minds because in order to tell them like mental health is a thing the way you do policies the way you do benefits is important it's a crucial aspect of how your employees are productive right you have happy employees you have a happy company and I think trying to change their mindset is is also trying to change their mindset on maybe they're not okay too and I think that's harder for them to understand sometimes because like I can tell you like having medical benefits and and having PTO is amazing because

[19:12]  you know our team members will feel happy they'll be better producing um you know you'll be able to invest in your team members and you that's the industry Trend right and yeah they're still in their mind sad and and depressed and trying to overcome things that they should have overcome long time ago and still trying to get onto the therapy bandwagon right so it's it's hard because you're you're trying to shift them personally because in order to have them make any changes into the business they need to believe in it themselves so it's hard um it's it's it's harder to do than working in a pandemic sometimes um but I think like like I mentioned the pandemic really showcased how important being happy is um and and sometimes leaders choose

[20:00]  their own happiness and yet they forget about you know the 50 100 team members that they have thousand team members that they have and they they they they close that door and say it's somebody else's problem I'm happy though you know I'm making $500,000 a year cuz you know I'm happy and yet their team member that's making $15 an hour can't even afford to go to therapy because of the medical plan that you don't want to give people because it costs too much money um so it's trying to understand it's trying to get them to understand that they're not horrible human beings um by any mean sometimes um but investing in people is important and I think it's just it's it wasn't something that was a business standard long time ago and it's slowly changing um and you know how well most people do with change yeah I mean

[20:49]  it's really tough I mean one of the biggest reasons why I'm such a huge advocate for mental health is I grew up an athlete I played all the sports football basketball baseball it was always uh led by the generation previous right and that generation never had a real good touch on some of the soft skills that are necessary to be successful and when I think about leaders like you and I being in positions of influence now we can actually kind of start rewriting that narrative but a huge part of rewriting that mental health narrative is helping people get past those invisible barriers that they've had built up through time and so hearing that leaders like you have have an emphasis on mental health and everybody in themselves as a whole person right we're not just our physical health we're not just our emotional health we're our mental health we're a

[21:36]  whole human and the whole Human Experience in itself is really based on the experiences we've been through the challenges the victories we've experienced as well but that all starts here and if you're not showing up in a good mental health State then you're not going to be able to serve yourself your team your customers your clients your patients anybody will you know it's been a huge um a huge challenge that I've really kind of dedicated myself to is helping people rewrite the narrative around mental health because accessing things like a therapist and a counselor for a lot of our male demographic is a scary concept people are like I don't need to go talk to anybody I don't do that I mean when you come from a mixed like ethnicity background like me I'm half black half white the black side of my family is like we don't talk to people about our problems and it's like guys you know as I look at myself as a

[22:23]  33y old man today I'm trying to break down these invisible barriers that will stop me from being successful from a mindset perspective because I realize those are some of the last challenges that my lineage has to overcome but I'm dealing with the traumas and the experiences and the the Notions that men and other family members have passed down from generation to generation it's a tough tough gig to overcome that stigma you know what I mean and so that's kind of why um you know the brand Francis in itself is all about sending a daily text message of positivity encouragement or a mental Wellness exercise because because a text is not scary but if I can get your brain thinking happier and healthier thoughts I can somewhat coers you coorse you the word or influence you to be happier and healthier you know what I mean it's like

[23:10]  a sneaky attack on trying to just spread positivity and it sounds like you really aligned with that kind of mentality as well yeah um one like main achievement that I kind of made all of our managers do back at Max Casino um was we kind of redoing how the company looks at performance shortcomings right like when you're when when you have team members that are suffering from mental health issues they're not coming to work as the best right they're they might be confused they have memory issues they're sad you know they they're just they're not okay and so re focusing on on how companies handle performance issues instead of going immediately to like a

[23:56]  write up right like we don't you know shifting it from a man from a purely like disciplinary perspective to that of a like a leader and a mentor leading them to success focusing on um finding solutions to their to their shortcomings rather than you know giving them like a performance Improvement plan that was typically always ill attended right like people are super scared of performance Improvement lands because it's the easiest way to fire people oh absolutely you know in the HR industry at least you know kind of like the older industry it's easiest way to fire people easiest way to win unemployment right and so it's it's trying to change that mindset of like these managers but also the team members you know team members nowadays they have like horrible Trauma

[24:44]  from past HR people so when you get called to the HR office it's it's typically a bad thing and you know I'm all about changing changing that mindset changing how people view HR and view it more as a resource to team members and managers and trying to get managers to be a leader you know I I tell leaders to to focus on helping team members finding solutions that work for the team member might not work best for the manager the manager might have to like refocus and rethink on how they do things or like change a schedule um but if it can help a team member in their shortcomings then why not you know like change things you know ask your question why not why can't I do this why can't what can I do to help this team member um you know

[25:34]  it's telling managers to stop penalizing people for struggling and and to create that culture of how can I help you better perform what do you need from me like I am here I am in your corner I am ready for you to succeed let me help you you know do you need a schedule change do you do you need a hug do you need one-on-one conversations right like managers are so terrified of talking to their team members for some reason because they think they're they'll offend them or they'll get sued for something that they say and I'm like well if if you think you're you're going to get sued for saying something you probably shouldn't be saying it number one but number two like don't be afraid to talk to your team members they're human and they they need that human connection right like you need to drop the facade of like I'm your manager I'm going to tell you what

[26:22]  to do and you need to focus on like telling your team members I'm I might I'm Your Leader I'm here to help you succeed so let's do this you know making it more personal I I I have team members that were terrified of coming to me because they thought I was going to like fire them for their shortcomings and I'm like no I just want to know how you are how can I help you you know as HR it's like my responsibility for like the whole team and you know I had this manager that just that couldn't connect with a team member and this I I brought this team member in I'm like hey hey you have performance issues I know you're not okay so how are you really and like she just like she broke down you know she she had no one to talk to she had no one

[27:09]  to believe in her she had worked with us for 3 years and all of a sudden became this horrible performing employee and like management wanted to fire her and find something find someone better and I'm like no like let's let's talk to her you know she's been here for 3 years we need to invest in in her and so you know I brought her in and and she told me all of these things about like going through divorce and and losing custody of her kids and just these horrible things that were going on and you know we we worked through it we we created Solutions I checked in with her once a week I'm like how are you really you know I became her therapist her unlicensed therapist like I think most HR professionals can concur with you become that like unlicensed unofficial therapist and and and this team member

[27:58]  she came to me like a month later um she was better she was just happier she was performing better and she said you know I was going to kill myself the night that you that you came to talk to me like I had a plan I was over it I thought I was being fired and I just I can't live with being fired um you know she had a good work ethic and she was afraid of being fired she was afraid of being drudged she was afraid of just losing everything and the heartfelt conversation that I had with her you know struggling with mental health myself like I was able to connect with her probably better than most and just those conversations with her I guess helped her see that there's there's a light at the end of the tunnel there's more to live with and you know she's off now doing like bigger and better things um for herself which I'm thrilled about

[28:46]  but it's like it's moments like those that you realize conversations with your team members might change their life for the better or for the worse so you better choose the better side of things care care about your team members cuz they are human we all go through stuff in life um and don't penalize them for for not being okay and make it a culture where it's okay to not be okay but let's focus on what you need to to get back to where you are and as a leader it's your responsibility to make sure that you facilitate all of that you know one of my favorite leaders is Gary vaynerchuk and he has a saying he's like if you're the CEO of a company and you think that your team member work for you you have it completely backwards because you work for them you need to empower them with

[29:33]  the resources the tools and honestly often just the presence of somebody who cares about them and so what it sounds like is you are the first leader who really took the time to actually ask are you okay to that team member who you've been talking about and you literally changed her life yeah it it it was an amazing feeling but also such a sad feeling at the same time because if it wasn't for me she probably would have been fired who knows what would have happened right and it's just it's a horrible mindset for for these managers to have and it's just it's sad overall and I'm so excited that like I said covid-19 was horrible but I'm excited that it brought mental health awareness you know a lot of people don't understand mental health right like they might not suffer which

[30:21]  is phenomenal good for them um but they might not suffer so they might not understand what people go through and being aware that it's a problem and and finding people who are aware and who can help connect with people to trans help you know help them Save a Life you know transform their lives it's so important and I I'm happy that leaders are now finally starting to understand that um and yeah it was just it was a sad moment overall because I'm like why should I have been the one to do that it shouldn't have come to me it should have happened first with your manag it should have happened months ago when the performance shortcomings happened you know like taking that proactive approach and saying hey last week you just you weren't yourself what's going on you know instead of letting it build up for

[31:10]  months and months and then all of a sudden HR has to come in and then say hey how are you really and then you know just having all of that happen so it shouldn't have come to the point where she wanted to end her life and it shouldn't have come to the point where she sat in my office and and had that conversation it should have come from the manager the first week that you know shortcomings happened I mean let's talk that's where we need to build to yeah let's talk about that for a second because you know one of the things that I think is important to recognize is the emphasis of mental Wellness mental health positivity all trickles down from the top and so what are some of the ways in which you would suggest leaders who are listening to this podcast can start influencing the people beneath them with a better attitude around mental health is it transparency is it vulnerability is it sharing our own struggles what

[31:58]  type of things do you think are the responsibility of the people at the top to set the tone to create that safe work environment that people really need to be reinforced with I think it's everything that you said you know often times like team members they might be afraid to go to a manager or their leader or even talk to their CEO because they view them as a better person or or not even human right like sometimes I would be afraid to go talk to the my CEO because I'm like that's my CEO but having that that that transparency showing people that you're human too that you go through struggles like it's okay to not be okay I think is is the message that leaders need to start showing people and showing their team members you know I leaders need to start talking to their team members having effective communication and

[32:47]  saying what do you need from me you know like that's that's your whole narrative right there your team member is going to be responsible for their own success and it's your job to help facilitate that right I tell my team members all the time I'm like I can't help you if you don't talk to me right like I can see your body language I can see sometimes your struggle but I don't know where you want to go in five years you know I'm I sincerely hope it's not you know in your current position like I want you to grow where do you want to go let me get you there let me network with people in companies that you might want to be with and let me help you get there you know that's all that's what it's all about you know I I I teach a cultural competency class and within the class I share my my struggles of you know my my own mental health issues um and it puts

[33:38]  me down a pig and and makes me human it it shows that I have problems too I have issues too we all have issues but it's what we do with those issues and then how we find solutions to those issues that really make us who we are um and I think leaders need to understand like everyone goes through stuff but you need to talk to your team members you need to have that communication with them you need to build that trust and that respect to people with not just your team members but you you need to you know if you're like the CEO you need to have those conversations with your VPS and your other you know Executives and make sure that they're doing the same thing with their team members and that those team members are doing the same thing with the people under them it needs to trickle down um and I think people just need to care you know like I

[34:25]  see a lot of these like industry trends of like people first right like we're we'll throw you a pizza party and you know here's a $100 gift card like you know like that's not people first right like you need to genuinely care about your your team members because your team members are are going to decide whether or not your company succeeds you know like without your team members you have no company you know and I think it's important that you start like leaders start investing their time in in their most valuable asset you know you know company cars you take them for oil changes you make sure they're okay cuz cars are expensive well humans are Priceless you know you need to start taking care of your your your your people making sure that they have their oils changed and and you know making sure that they're okay um and just

[35:13]  having that effective communication it all starts there having those one-on-one meetings taking down the barrier from you know employee to employer relation to leader and mentor and and team member I think is is the First Step um and I think it's the biggest step I mean one of the if we going to if we're going to take it into you know humans are a th% Priceless I agree 100% with you there but if you're thinking about a business metric the national Safety Council in 2022 came out with a study that said that employees that have poor mental health cost their employer on average $115,000 per year on absenteeism turnover and lost productivity so if you're thinking about driving things towards the bottom line me mental health is one of the best investments that you can make so you're not have carrying a

[36:01]  bucket if you will with a whole bunch of holes in it where we've got money just leaking out and I think that's a real emphasis for the future of leadership and so my question for you is when it comes to approaching leaders who come from a previous generation or maybe have a legacy mindset how do you kind of break down some of those barriers about the importance of investing into the human element of their business because I know a lot of those things can be seen as kind of like soft skin or unnecessary right but how do you kind of break down some of those barriers to have important conversations I think it all kind of starts with a team like a satisfaction survey an engagement survey you know I can go to to an owner to a CEO to to a general manager and say you know these are all important things you know all of the big companies are doing it you

[36:48]  should be doing it too let's look at how much it costs for you to hire somebody and let's look at your turnover and let's let's look at all of this right but I think the most important aspect of that is coming directly from the team members there's a I feel like a lot of Disconnect from from leadership and and from the older Legacy thinking leadership to their team members like they think everything's fine and over here their team members are like on fire and they need water and they're like oh no there's fine there's a fire extinguisher um and I think it's it's understanding that like people have thoughts and opinions and then doing that engagement survey can kind of break all down and say what are we doing wrong what are we doing right and taking that to leadership and then saying these are all the things that your team members hate this is

[37:35]  probably why you're spending so much money in hiring people this is probably so why you know you're losing all of these people this is why you have one start on indeed and you can't hire people even though you throw money at them um you know it's it's hitting them where it hits most and it's how much money they've lost right like I try not to do too much in in like the mental health side of things because I feel like a lot of them they just don't see the value of investing right they see they see the dollar signs of like we need better benefits and we need more PTO like that's all money for them right that's all short um upfront costs that they're going to have to use but they don't think long term they were never taught to think long term about their team members um because to them you know I I deal with like a lot of entrylevel

[38:24]  positions you could say and so to these these leaderships they're like well that person's not going to be there any year it's like well you also have team members that have been here for 13 years so like you know help me and like help me figure where you're coming from um you know we need to focus on on the team members that they might want to be there for multiple years but you know they can't afford to be there multiple years or we drive them out like why not why not have people there for for 10 for 5 10 13 15 20 years you know that saves you a whole lot of money down the long road that helps you with culture that helps you with training you know there's so many things that go along with that and you put it all in an Excel sheet and they're like oh that's a huge number of money that we're losing and you know

[39:12]  I'll mention that's just for one of your people that's one team member costs you almost $20,000 over the next 10 years and people are like oh okay and then they see it's going to cost me $330,000 more a month for better benefits and PTO perks and you know multiple pizza parties or whatever and so it's just it's trying to get them to play the long game yeah with their financials and understanding that it'll get better like your return on investment will get there it's just it's a long road ahead because it takes a lot of time to change people's mindsets it takes a lot of time for people to undo the trauma that a lot of these leaders gave them in the first place um and you know I ALS I also mentioned I'm like hey if you know they experience work related

[40:01]  trauma that's workers comp you know they can go to a doctor and you know they can be on on leave with workers comp for this you know your insurance premiums might go up and then all of a sudden like all the red flags start hitting and they're like that's impossible and then you know I show them case studies that have happened so it's really hitting them you know with with the the bottom line right but it's teaching them that yeah it's like teaching them like do you want to invest longterm and be a better human P human being and treat your human like your team members like a human or do you want to focus on being cheap um and sometimes there's just there's no getting away with it right like there's no changing mindsets and unfortunately it happens but those are also the companies that aren't going to be in business in 5 to 10 years from now so I

[40:48]  mean they kind of do it to themselves the future of business is changing and you know before we hopped on here I pulled um my audience to ask questions and give insights about HR and the culture of work these days and one of the things I notice when you mention there like that person's not going to be here in a year when you were just giving your examples there's a lot of new people coming into the work environment and those are a lot of gen Z workers as well and these guys are the ones who are not going to put up with that Legacy mindset and so one of the questions that um that was kind of posed was I'm a jenzy worker for a boomer boss and I feel like I'm never going to be able to get through to this person so what is your perspective on the new Workforce that comes into these environments of you know employment and they just have completely different

[41:34]  generational expectations than the previous generation did what kind of problems do you think these new leaders are going to be facing when it comes to I would say nurturing this new Workforce that's coming into the world I think a lot of leaders are in for a culture shock they're like I said before they they weren't brought up with all any of this they they think all of this like new age stuff is is stupid and and focusing on the wrong things when we should be focusing on the business and I think it's a collaborative issue I think when genen the genz coming in and and facing the the Boomer kind of Legacy leadership it's it's a team effort you know I I see a lot of times like just team members coming in and like you said not putting up with with how Boomers

[42:23]  treat them or policies that are coming through and it's like you need to help be part of the change not just say that's it I'm not putting up with this I'm calling out today or like I need a mental health day because you got me in trouble or whatever like it's it's a group effort and I think it all comes down to like like I said that communication talk to your boss talk to create the one-on-one conversation with your boss if you're not having any just come into their office and say we're going to talk today and this is how I'm feeling and and this is how I'm doing things and you know do you have any insights and be part of the change um because the Boomers aren't going to change on their own right they they're stuck in their mindset and it's you're going to have to compromise eventually you know like I had I had a team member one day tell me that you

[43:11]  know they think it's unfair that they don't get at least a month of PTO you know mental health is is is important and they they just they shouldn't be working all of their lives and and this and that and I kind of just looked at her and I'm like I don't think you understand how a business works then you know I want to give you a month of PTO but that also means now I have to hire someone that's going to cover all those shifts right like you've been here for a month you don't get a month of PT um so I think it's all about like that compromise right like I think a lot of it comes from like the Boomers just the the genz years kind of being dramatic and like playing things out and trying to like abuse the system a lot a little bit and like the boomers are all

[43:57]  us you know coming in and saying that's not how businesses working this isn't how we're going to do things and this is my business and you know you can't abuse the system and you know it just devalues when when people say oh I need a mental health day and they go out and party and say that party was for my mental health it devalues all the work that we're trying to do to get mental health to the Forefront of things and trying to change people's minds and then you know people go and do that and it's the there's no business side of things right like the leaders aren't understanding the business aspect of it so it's hard it's it's a team effort and we can't abuse the the mental health awareness motion I and we just kind of have to move with the the all of our leaders wherever they are in their

[44:45]  understanding of mental awareness we have to move with them we can't just stab them for also struggling to understand we can't panelize them for not understanding how mental awareness works um and but yeah like leaders are going to have a bit of a culture shock if they're not willing to change if they're not willing to have effective communication with their people you know if you own a business you should know adapting is going to help you continue having a successful business like being stagnant and not changing anything or not innovating it's going to kill your business right and it's the same thing when it comes to your team members and adapting to how your team members are thinking at that point you know what's good for your business happy team members and and team members that are excited to work for you or unhappy team members that are yelling at you for not

[45:33]  understanding something that you don't understand and then firing them or or forcing them out you know so it's it's a good business thing just having happy team members and if you can't see that if you can't see having happy team members and investing in your team members and compromising with your team members should you be really running a business at at this point you know no you're talking about a healthy sense of innovation and I love that because the world in itself has gotten so technologically forward right that everybody thinks that Innovation means AI or innovation means chat gbt but Innovation also means adapting to the new circumstances of your Workforce and being able to tailor your policies your procedures how you end up supporting your employees as well is a new form of innovation and

[46:21]  that's where a lot of leadership needs to be at in today's conversation you know Thomas this is has been an amazing you know exercise and you know hearing your experiences dealing with mental health challenges how you're refortify the organizations who you work with and also creating that sense of safety which I think is so important for everybody to learn a little bit more about safe places create opportunities for growth and growth is a business I would say metric when it comes to the human element of your business as well and so as we kind of you know close up a little bit today I want you to use the last couple seconds here to basically tell people how they can find more about you how they can find more about Nevada HR as well so if they're interested in you know being in alignment with your culture the things that you're prioritizing they can kind of reach out and learn more about

[47:08]  you yeah um people can find me by going to Nevada hr.com um all of my content is there all of you know what I firmly believe in and my story of how I created Nevada HR and and my motto of transforming lives with the power of HR and um it can all be found there um and you know if they're open to it I'm excited to to talk to them and and see what their needs are and and how they see themselves as a business and a leader um and how I can help better move their business along um by Al by also you know helping them invest in their team members and helping them understand everything going on in the New Age um you know I focus on small businesses because I feel like that's where the need is the most um and I want small businesses to succeed and you know links online Nevada .c go to it and

[47:57]  hopefully we'll be in touch well guys that's been a great nether episode of the heart and hustle podcast and Thomas really does emphasize the balance and necessity of heart and hustle when it comes to success in business and in life so Thomas thank you much thank you so much for being today's guest and I really appreciate you being a part of our new HR hero series you've made a gigantic impact on me and I know everybody else who's listening as well so guys that's been another episode thank you so much for tuning in again once again go check check out Thomas Nevada hr.com an amazing domain by the way I have to say so go check him out if you want to learn more but thanks for tuning in to another episode talk to you guys later bye