The Teamwork Behind Stopping Erosion: Expert Shares Their Journey

[0:00]  and one of the things I always tell staff is I'm not white knuckled in my job I love my job but I love it when my staff does great and I can celebrate them and they do well they're never going to outshine me they're I'm never never worried about that I'm always going to support them and develop them of what they want to do but they never have to worry about me uh I'm very confident in what my background is and I want really smart people to work with and I want them to do well and help us and move us forward all right guys welcome back to a brand

[0:46]  new episode of the heart and hustle podcast now I'm incredibly excited because I've got the CEO of the Ia here Samantha row welcome to the or welcome to the show Samantha I'm excited for you to be here thank you I appreciate your invitation absolutely so to kind of talk about the amazing work that you do when it comes to erosion control but everything else that you kind of have purview over I want to talk about kind of the importance of erosion control in today's conversation I want to talk about the business case for erosion control the impact that we're seeing what it seems like every single day in our communities but before we kind of dive into that how does one become the CEO of this amazing organization what is kind of your journey like let's get a little bit of background in your professional career sure well my journey is not the normal Journey but I think for most Association

[1:34]  CEOs they'll tell you that uh everyone's journey is different uh I grew up in Michigan and uh I didn't come from a wealthy family but I really wanted to do more and get out of Michigan and um learn other languages and study abroad and kind of see the world so I uh really focused on uh that when I was younger I went to Western Michigan University I studied French and Asian studies with businessing European studies and was able to find uh work study programs in other countries so I was able to live in Japan France Ireland and Quebec Canada and so that gave me a really great background and a double bachelor's degree and then I moved to South Florida uh which didn't do do me as well uh but

[2:23]  I I made the course correction and moved to DC and uh ended up initially working for Amer University I wanted to be a Foreign Service Officer but as I talked to some of the Foreign Service officers I said don't do it so I did what most people do when they go to DC is they go and work on Capitol Hill to get the uh experience it would be kind of the equivalent of moving to Hollywood and never working in the industry if you didn't have that it it really kind of cripples you so I worked for a congressman for a couple years uh from California and that was really fantastic uh great exposure and then I went to work for the US Chamber of Commerce and while I was at the US Chamber of Commerce uh they have a program called The Institute for organization management and so I actually worked on that program for a while but then I also

[3:12]  participated in it and so it gave me the background it's a uh basically a training program for Chamber Executives and Association Executives to uh help run uh those areas so most people don't necessarily go uh there are more programs now but most people don't go to school to for Association Management um they don't realize that that's what they're going to get into so it was a really great opportunity uh while I was at the chamber I also worked as the Director of the Chairman's program so I was able to travel with the chairman of the US Chamber of Commerce for two years uh one year it was with a CEO of a large business and the following year it was one with a smaller business so uh it worked out really great I went to the uh

[4:00]  G um G8 business Summit in Tokyo by chance which was great because you know when I graduated with French and Asian studies everyone told me I would never be able to use it and and have that opportunity uh and then we also went to the emergency G5 uh Summit in Paris uh during the financial meltdown uh so that was a really great experience but when you're in DC you realize that if you're going to stay and do uh if you're going to be a lobbyist you're you're kind of tied into DC Forever and I knew I wanted to go and have that experience but I was ready for a change of Lifestyle so I moved to uh Colorado in 2010 and uh started working for an association the Financial Planning Association and I was uh there with chapter and volunteer

[4:49]  relations so I got to very comfortable understanding kind of what was going on and the value of associations when it comes down to components and then then I went to the society for mining Metallurgy and exploration after that and did membership and then uh a uh recruiter found me and uh it was a very auspicious time and so I uh started actually uh October first was my six year anniversary uh with IA wow six years now seems like time has flown so one of my questions for you is being born or be grow growing up in Michigan right and spending time there so many people want to get out of that state and go explore the world what was your biggest motivation for getting outside of the Mitten if you will because I also

[5:36]  grew up there I was always encouraged to go out and experience different types of cultures and different types of people what was your biggest motivation for getting out of the glove I guess you would say and going to DC and France and all these other places so I I was kind of a lonely child and a dreamer and I just always wanted to do more and actually my French teacher in college asked me like why why did I want to do these things and what was it cuz I didn't come from a family that that was really um important to um not they they um weren't really promoting it uh but they weren't discouraging it as much but it was more something that was very much I was driving and I was always friends with uh the uh exchange students and and all those people when you know wherever

[6:23]  I went to school uh I would always like gravitate toward those people who were different and interesting and wanted to learn more and and really enjoyed it and so uh it was funny because I I moved so much uh because I was a year in France a year in Japan uh four months in Ireland three months in Quebec and um my parents finally said okay why don't you just be like stable for two years and so I ended up staying in DC for 10 years and it worked out really great but I I just always um I wanted something different and with Michigan I really appreciate having grown up there but um you know for me I looked at the economy and at that time uh the big three automakers were really had a strangle hold on the uh State and so no matter what you went

[7:12]  into if you went into nursing you were still probably going into nursing to be near either a plant or whatever and my grandma actually worked for Oldsmobile um on the line and so I grew up in a family that was very familiar with the automakers and everything else but I knew I didn't want uh to be connected to that and I was really fortunate because well we didn't have money we had exposure and so my dad was in politics and would have fundraisers and do things I traveled with the circus for a while when I when I was younger things like that that um I think you know not very a very unique childhood compared to others but uh it just gave me um that view of more and uh just helped me to want to keep striving to try new things and uh

[8:03]  when I get bored and I'm also late uh diagnosed ADHD which now describes a lot of my childhood of why so it is definitely something that has worked in my favor from that perspective what is the process of becoming I would say ass simulated and integrated into the process of living in a state or a place like DC now recognize tons of tradition there tons of circles so if you come in from the outside you're going to have to be really assertive in kind of implementing yourself into those social circles getting exposure what was that process like of making that adjustment in living in DC for so long it does it's really interesting um by chance uh my brother uh he uh worked in DC at a point when I moved to DC he was back in California um but then he ended up coming in and so at the time that I got the job um with the congressman uh they knew who I was because of connection to

[8:54]  my brother but they actually never talked to him and there's another person we had in common that was the uh person who was uh basically told them that I was a good person and could be trusted and you know could bring me into the fold for it um I think it's it's one of those things that you do have to just get in there and you know make those moves you know create those friendships things like that um I what I like about working on the hill is that it's kind of college again in the fact that you have a lot of younger people uh each each office is a little different because they're from a different state a different different group but you ended up meeting them this was back in the early 2000 so it was great because we would meet at receptions things like

[9:42]  that and one as I mentioned before you really if you go to DC have to have that experience so that you can go work in other areas because you really can't understand it unless you've lived it and so it was a great opportunity uh I I did it for 2 years but you're you're kind of on 24/7 so 2 years is like four years uh but it was it was a great time and it helped me get to the US chamber which then you know led to to other things as well so so 2010 we now moved to Colorado and we start you know managing and helping with these associations why are associations something that kind of like got your attention I'm really interested in kind of how you navigated this early chapter because Association Management and helping associations is not something that often we hear about even

[10:29]  here on the podcast so what were some of the decisions that were aligned with moving to Colorado now getting integrated into the association space what was that like so uh the US chamber actually had um the Chamber of Commerce Committee of 100 which is the top 100 Chamber Executives in the country and I worked closely with them both with the Institute program and with uh the programming with the committee of um the committee of 100 and CCC 100 so they had also the top 100 Association executive so I was able to meet them talk to them talk about their Industries uh I was really fortunate with um my mentor uh who was my boss who uh when we were talking about like when I leave the chamber what do I want to do and I said you know it I can't get excited about a product you know I can't go work for

[11:19]  Sprint I can say Sprint since it's not really there anymore um I can't really get into that but I I really uh love to connect people and I like to do something that is uh helping um the world and uh you know I I feel like half of my job is kind of my volunteer work as well you know I could be making more money doing something else but I believe in in what we're doing and there's so much opportunity and and really looking forward to seeing the impact we can have I mean it's amazing to think about how there are these organizations and associations that have such a huge impact in our communities but you guys kind of operate in the shadows right and which is really really interesting to me so let's kind of get into the importance of erosion control what is erosion control how does it impact everybody as

[12:08]  we kind of sit here today on this call who was listening and tuning in kind of paint the picture for us so we can have the understanding of the audience here sure well I I always say when I tell people what I do I usually get a blank stare and they say that sounds important but I have no idea what that is and uh you know it's it's something that is I think very fundamental to our lives that we take for granted and it's now something that has been brought to the Forefront because of different um um storm events things that are happening so uh erosion control is even when you have a single family house when you uh your yard uh for people in their yard and they maybe have some sort of slope and it's not stabilized you understand so I kind of it's one of those things

[12:55]  you know it when it's bad because you're you know trying to deal with it and trying to fix it uh but basically it's um the erosion control the sediment so sediment in streams lights and streams things like that where you see these things and they're it's very foggy they shouldn't be foggy and so figuring out what the sediment is and how to reduce it uh we like to say we keep uh soils where soils should be and water where water should be and uh we just try to do what we can to preserve the Earth and uh for future generations and so what I really like about uh this organization in the industry is that it truly is doing something that's trying to make it better for the future and also help help

[13:44]  you um individually and personally as well with um with your personal Investments things from from single family homes multi you know multif family homes things like that all it all matters when it comes down to it I mean the thing that I think is really important for us to emphasize is you never think about erosion control until you need erosion control and when you need erosion control it's too late to have the conversation and over the last couple months here right we're recording this at the beginning of December 2024 we've seen some really bad hurricanes that have impacted Florida North Carolina Georgia South Carolina and one of the examples I think is important for us to talk about is kind of Asheville right we saw Asheville major flooding 2,000 ft above sea level why is it now important for people to recognize the

[14:31]  impact of erosion especially when it comes to impact our finances is there a connection there that makes your guys's role responsibility and the impact that you guys are trying to make more impactful sure so it's actually twofold one you have new construction and so and higher density construction so as uh rain events happen uh they go in and because they don't have permeable uh res you know ways to to go into the Earth then what do they do they stay on top and they flood um the other part is the Aging infrastructure and this is very apparent well we're talking about Asheville if we go back to Detroit every time it rains in Detroit there's major flooding people are losing cars there you know all these things are happening and it it has a huge impact on it so you go back to Asheville one of the things

[15:20]  with ICA we have nine chapters in the US and they're all based off of EPA region and the reason is because the geography and topography of these EPA regions is different so uh when you are doing things in in Florida the the rain events things that happen are much different than when you're in high desert in Colorado and so it's important that you're you're uh working with your uh area of the geography topography and doing the things that you need to do uh what happened with Asheville being as high as it was uh you know from sea level and having such an impact that was definitely I can't even say once in 500 a year I mean that was just a really truly interesting event that happened but um that's why it's it's really difficult

[16:09]  and we need to be able to work with what um the current situation is but also what could potentially happen and that's where it goes back to that high density building when uh I moved here in 2010 it's you know 2024 it has grown so much in this area and so what's happen happened with that so there are less areas for the water to penetrate into things like that so we get those rain events and and they're going to be standing they're going to be doing they're not going to do what they did before and so it's really important as you're doing this to keep from flooding in your you know um basements and things like that one of the things that happened with the hurricanes in Florida that was really interesting is that I heard a lot of backlash about flood zones and people you know flood

[16:59]  insurance and things like that in Florida if you uh do not live in a flood plane you cannot get flood insurance and even if you can good luck so you know so you really do have to feel for people um you know it is Florida is kind of a marshy swamp and you know uh they've been doing that but I think that that's where uh you know innovation in building uh and how they're doing that to sustain uh are some easy fixes that that can happen from it so I mean I think about especially over the last couple years because of the pandemic right we saw Mass populations in heavily I would say congested metropolitan areas move outward to different areas in different states Las Vegas we got a ton of people

[17:47]  from Colorado we got a ton of people from California and it seems like we continue to grow outward without the plan of flooding I talk about this when I first moved to Vegas in 2012 we had had I want to say probably like 6 Ines of rain over like maybe an 8 Hour span a ton of rain here in southern Nevada everything flooded out really bad we always talked about it but in the recent years ever since we've seen more population more ashall the flooding here in Las Vegas has gotten so much worse because all of the water that falls up on the mountains goes directly down into the valley and it seems like there's a lack of planning that comes along with that because the flooding here is no joke we're talking like 3 ft of water that will Rush down through Las Vegas boulev V into some areas like the link and the strip are we being a little bit impatient with growth and not I would

[18:34]  say building the infrastructure that's needed to stop some of these huge flooding events seems like we continue to see these more and more often yeah absolutely I think it goes back to uh you know it's kind of like pre- 911 we didn't think that having security at the airport was important in fact I remember thinking before we're a little wild loose with you know security where you could just walk right up get on a plane and there wasn't anything uh and I think what happened is people just they they think Las Vegas or California and they think dry and the thing is it is and the same in Colorado it can be dry but then you get a rain event and that changes everything and so you have to still um build to worst case scenarios uh because all it takes is one to wipe

[19:25]  out that investment whether it's uh you know a single family home or even some of the commercial things uh one thing I will say is that you know a builder goes in and they're trying to maximize The Profit so they're going to go in and they're going to build what they think you know with all the different you know httv has put it out there all the different things you want to have and all these things well all these things cost money and so uh sometimes what happens is the landscaping and and those pieces that you think oh that's just more for you know uh it to be pretty or aesthetic or whatever it also is a function of again when you get rain when you get snow snow events as well we had a huge snow event here and it's just important that you're

[20:14]  looking at it more holistically how do we how are we supposed to balance the holistic approach to building infrastructure needed for sustainability on the opposite side we have I need to make these things these environments these INF structures as cheap as possible to be able to save money where's the balancing point there and what role do you guys play in saying hey more sustainability more means more intention means more money to be able to build out these New Living Spaces XYZ how do you guys kind of balance that responsibility so you know as we've seen over the past you know 10 15 years the increase in pricing for homes both single family and and multi-unit have skyrocketed but one of the things it it can be a a sales tool so for instance in Alabama

[21:03]  in some of the new build homes they're actually building storm water retention tanks and it's a selling point so if you can turn it just from hey we did it and it's kind of hidden and you're bringing it up more to it's not if it's going to happen it's when it's going to happen and by the way you have the storm water retention tank that then is going to recycle that water into water for your sprinklers then that becomes part of it and it becomes part of that circle of life for it and and that's where I really try to focus on the business case for it because uh you know these insurance companies are pulling out of California and Florida and it's it's a business case for them they can't sustain these losses but um with living in Colorado I've been here 14 years and

[21:52]  I've had two new4 $50,000 rofes on my house because we're in Hal alley so at a certain point they're going to say we're not going to replace your roof they've already done a uh you have to pay a percentage of the value of your house as a deductible before you can get your roof and so you know something has to give and so my feeling is if we go in and we start talking about the value of erosion control storm water things whatever it is of these things as selling points that then would have the business case to be able to uh on a yearly basis so when you renew your house insurance they usually say do you have a um home alarm system that is monitored if you do we will take a certain amount off and so that's that's where you can get it where you're

[22:39]  incentivizing it if we have these things and so it's identifying these things that work it's Alabama maybe it's the storm waterer retention tank different areas have different requirements but as we've seen with California and Florida California's had to adjust their building codes for earthquakes and Florida has to have has had to do that for hurricanes I think now it needs to be part of that planning process and it needs to be something that uh the general public is looking at and is appreciating I always say that uh you know gluten-free was never mandated it was something that people felt was they needed and so that's why um you know the business Community responded and they created those things so it's just it's one of those things that come with education uh one of the things I I tell

[23:27]  our members is we do a great job of talking to each other but we have to start talking outside and and having people understand the impact and and why uh why it's important and why when infrastructure bills happen uh different things that it is important um and so uh they they understand that impact then they're more likely to support it do you ever find yourself as the CEO of this organization who has so much information to data right hard facts about it's going to storm more it's going to rain it's going to snow more it's going to impact erosion which is going to have an impact on our communities financially do you ever find yourself frustrating that you have to come through the business case instead of the environmental case for some of these changes that are necessary I would find myself getting a little frustrated if I was in your stance being like guys the writing's on

[24:13]  the wall but if I need to make a business case for this to get you guys to understand and move in that direction how do you deal with that well it's interesting so uh I just was uh in another city where they were telling me all about things that they were doing and they said okay so uh before the pandemic we had this all approved and planned out and everything and then we had to put it on hold and so now while it's approved the price for that has more than doubled yeah and not only is it the labor not only is it the you know supplies and everything else but it's also the financing and that's what really struck me I didn't I don't know why I didn't think of it but I was like oh my gosh yeah so a 300 million or billion dollar project is now 700 and that's just a few years later in that

[25:01]  process so what then happens is you any business to stay afloat and do what they need to do they're going to redline anything they don't have to do and it isn't necessarily that they're bad people it's that they are just trying to cut whatever does not have to happen they're trying to go in the mining industry does this they go in and they're trying to extract all that they can for the lowest amount and then you know they usually leave it to civil engineers and I you know having worked in the with the mining Association I I have a great appreciation for Mining and Mining engineering but what happens is they then send it to the civil engineers and it's kind of an afterthought because you know it goes back to we have shareholders we have to do all these

[25:48]  things so it just becomes kind of uh the reason for it and so usually people will react to the business case if if money is involved and something that um residually will happen so every year you're going to see that your initial investment was worth it beyond the fact that you didn't have to worry about the flooding and and things like that I think that will be the push but a lot of is education and you know a lot of it is on our side because uh you know we have a a thin budget and we do a lot of uh education and best practices and and uh trying to move it forward but we really have to get get our message out and that's why I appreciate you having me on here because it is something that I think is uh has a huge impact uh just uh

[26:36]  the society at large and around the world so this isn't just I love that we're an International Association and that were doing things outside I was just recently in China uh where they had a slope stability conference and they're doing some really incredible work um research on extreme cases of um you know slope issues ises things like that so there's just there's a lot of information out there and it's it's really um uh bringing it to the people and having them understand and understand that impact since you became CEO of this organization what is the biggest lesson that you've learned about this space that maybe you didn't expect before you took this role interesting um so the reason that the recruiter reached out to me was

[27:24]  because of uh the mining background I had which was actually really well done from that perspective and um it's one of those things that you I've always had a respect for erosion control and storm water management but you truly understand it when you see it and and how much and you know you kind of said you know it it should be a no-brainer but it's not and and that's why we have to get it out there but uh it can have such an impact and and when there's kind of bickering over global warming and you know straws and cows and all this stuff I mean part of what it is is like erosion control and storm water is going to help with that the more that we focus on that uh it really does have that benefit and then you you don't have to get in that fight of is it or isn't it

[28:13]  it it basically goes to the science of these things are helpful these things are detrimental and and I think that if we uh focus on that more I think it would it get more uh impact what are some of the areas that you guys focused on that maybe people who are listening to this episode or watching this episode today had no idea that erosion control was really kind of putting their energy in their effort into is there any type of like subject any type of area of the country or the globe that you guys are really focused on at this point in time that we should know about well I'll tell you I think what I found the most fascinating is uh when you look at downtown areas uh you'll see it used to be there was just a lot of asphalt cement really um no permeable pavers nothing and they've really gone in and

[29:00]  they've ripped a lot of it out and you'll see the trees a lot of those trees underneath is actually a storm water retention tank there and so it's TW full because you are able to have the trees for the aesthetic but then you also have it uh where it is lowering the temperature because when we talk about the temperature you know sun on asphalt sun on these roofs asphalt roofs you know what I mean like it's it's it's the thing that is increasing the Heat and so the more when you look at that and so I love it because it it gives you not only that uh erosion control and storm water piece of it but it it's an aesthetic and it's helping with bringing in more uh Economic Development as well so these

[29:49]  These downtowns are really great uh one of the things in Denver uh 16th Street Mall they tore it up and then they realized you know what we're going to tear it up even more and so it's been torn up for a while but they went in and said we have to redo everything and so if we're going to do it we're going to go and do it right and so uh you know it's when it's finished it will be fantastic but it is it's a lot of work and you know as we're again trying to cut cost where we can and everything it's just um on the front end is so much better than trying to do something on the other end and the other end I would say would be like Michigan um having grown up in Michigan loved to Lake Michigan we used to go and uh these houses we would drive along and these houses would be like 3/4 of an acre to an acre away from the edge and I would be like why why would you not have it

[30:37]  closer why wouldn't you want to be right there so you can see it well those houses now are falling over the edge because the erosion and everything that that's uh basically hit those areas um has made it so these houses are are are really being impacted so um it it's one of those things that once it's happened you can't it it's going to cost you so much more to try to to uh mediate it than if you uh figure it out on the front front end I mean and that seems like a story that's happening everywhere so not even on the coast of Lake Michigan uh there's a guy who I was speaking to at my gym the other day who owns a house down in San Diego somewhere and he was like yeah you know when I bought this house 10 years ago we had our own little slice of a private beach which was awesome now the entire Beach

[31:25]  is gone my backyard is disintegrating and I have to to go down a mile and a half to be able to access a beach and first of all I was like first world problem because you have some beach room property but second of all this is a common story that we're seeing the erosion of our coastlines is something that we're really going to have to pay attention to are there any type of like cities or states that have really started to take erosion control very seriously to be able to protect their coastlines that are a good place that we could look to or is everybody kind of just re reacting and adopting to what's necessary as we kind of go through the future I think they are I think you know it's trying to find what's the most effective and aesthetic to be honest um you know I just saw something about the mangroves and how much mangroves really help and um you know I lived in Florida for a while and I always saw like the jetty and the breakers and things like

[32:12]  that and I didn't realize just how important they were uh it's interesting I was talking to our the president of the association and I had read this article about uh Ireland and in Dublin there were cars that basically they shoved old cars that they shoved off to the side and they basically were being used for erosion control not the best choice for these old you know old dead cars but the you know people have seen it and and realize that there's an issue it's again finding what they um what they can use what they can do uh when they're able to really tell the story of what's happening I think they get more support but for a lot of these it's the city I mean some of it's you know single

[33:01]  family homes or whatever where they're trying to figure it out but but municipalities are having to figure out how are we going to invest in some of this stuff and be able to cover it and so you know getting that funding doing that stuff so uh it's it goes back to really being able to tell the story of why it's important and also the long-term impact and the savings on the other end and and kind of mitigation as well I mean that long-term impact is something I'm really interested in to see how leaders like yourself are going to be able to navigate the next 20 30 40 Years of erosion but also the environmental elements that we're dealing with as well are super impactful I want to I want to switch gears a little bit here and kind of play a different game if you will here on the podcast so we've got Samantha who's

[33:48]  going to Western Michigan right and she's about to go out into the world and take on the opportunities to live in France and DC and all these different places if you could sit down with her for five minutes and give her genuine heartfelt advice on how she was going to navigate those years to bring her right here what advice would you give that younger version of Samantha who's ready to go take on the world that's a great question um I think more than anything there were so many times that I wasn't sure I was on the right track and questioned myself or had you know kind of depressive times where I wasn't sure what I was doing when I came back from uh Japan and IR or uh from all my travels and everything and graduated I actually had a paralyzed vocal cord for two years and so I had to have throat surgery and they said oh we don't we

[34:36]  still don't want to do it I said listen I'm a language major I have to do that you know I have to be able to speak above a whisper uh but uh I think that there were always times where I really questioned what I was doing but it all worked out in the end and that's what I always now tell people is that again there's no one way of doing something thing and it's going to be okay and actually all these weird random things that you did along the way are going to help you as well and one of the things I always tell staff is I'm not white knuckled in my job I love my job but I love it when my staff does great and I can celebrate them and they do well they're never going to outshine me they're I'm never never worried about that I'm always going to support them and develop them of what they want to do

[35:24]  but they never have to worry about me uh I'm very confident in what my background is and I want really smart people to work with and I want them to do well and help us and move us forward and I think that's um something that I struggled with previously is I would have people that I worked for that were always trying to kind of sabotage me or sideline me I was always told like you're never going to use that you're never going to do that like you just have to you know put your nose down and do this and be done and I I paid my dues and I think that's really important too because you can't really appreciate it if you don't go through it and there was something I saw recently that said if you always knew what you wanted to do that's kind of like a lifetime sentence uh like a prison

[36:11]  sentence because you're never trying these other things and so did you just go into it because you were so determined that that's what it was I've had so many iterations and and different different ways that I've um gone in my life and it all led me here and I'm I'm very happy to be where I am man you just kind of gave us the perfect opportunity to segue into how we kind of land our plane here so part of our tradition Samantha on the podcast is our previous guest wanted to ask you a blind question okay now our previous guest is an amazing leader um a Stanford grad who also founded a company called clayful Health which is helping younger people get access to just in time coaching about all the stressful moments from when we're a teenager which is really cool her question for you was what is the importance of curiosity in your person

[36:58]  and professional life oh it's been everything for me honestly uh because when we go back to how I got into Association Management I would be in a role but yet I wanted to know about every other thing and so it was never just about what my position was it was about how it then other things impacted it what it was and so by the time I got to where I am now I had done every single job so I was not here to do the job but I was here to coach because I could understand it and it's just it makes your life so much richer and it shouldn't have to be somebody else forcing it it should be you wanting it and that's what I always uh attitude and aptitude for me I can teach you the

[37:48]  topic but it's attitude and aptitude and so if you have the right attitude and aptitude you can basically do anything you want to do oh Samantha that's a beautiful place for to put a ribbon on today's episode I can't thank you enough for everybody who's tuning in watching and listening you are absolutely the definition of heart and hustle and thank you so much for telling us about the amazing work that you do and having such a huge impact on not only our coastlines our Rivers uh but our communities in general we really appreciate all the work seriously Samantha thank you so much for coming on the show thank you I appreciate it all right guys that's a wrap we'll catch you in the next one