This McKinley CEO Chose People Over Profit - Here's What Happened Next

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast. Today we got two guests. We got Mr. Anneil to my right and Peter to my left. I don't know if this is exactly what it's going to look like when it's on YouTube, but who knows, man. I got two, just know we got two great amazing leaders. I'll start off with Peter. What is who are you representing today? What's the organization? What's your title?

[0:33]  What's going on Ephra? I am a board member with McKinley uh out here in Sand Deis. Uh I've been with the organization for almost three years as well. I am the chair of the external committee and it is just just amazing to work with Anneil and his team as well with McKim.

[0:50]  Mr. Anneil and yourself my brother talk to us.

[0:52]  Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having us our friend. It's really great to see you again. Uh my name is Anil Vaparty. the president and CEO of McKinley. We're a nonprofit organization in Southern California. Uh been around since 1900 and uh you know I've been with McKenley for 32 years now and we do social services, education, behavioral health. Uh you know we work with the communities here and um yeah it's a wonderful organization. I work with Peter. Peter serves on our board as a volunteer and uh yeah it's great to be here and again thanks for having us. Oh, I I you know, I muted myself. How crazy it was. I wanted to make sure you guys had the the ability to talk and I'm here talking to myself. Great. No, I was going to say that I I pre my the pledge is all mine, right? And uh you could have practiced law, but you chose purpose. You chose people. What's the why behind it? you you know it it was interesting. I I joined McKinley right after uh my undergraduate degree. Um you know just needed a job and so I never did this type of work before working you know in a a community uh you know center like McKenley. So it was a new it was a really new experience for me and then uh you know I went to law school uh right after that. I um I I took a year off in between graduating and uh then I went to law school and you know the whole time I was in law school I just really was wondering about how I could use my legal education to make an impact and do something different of course do something that I love. Um and I kept going back to the work that I was doing at McKinley and thinking about you know how can I blend the two? And you know there's a lot of people who graduate law school who never practice law. Um, so I'm I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily unique in that sense, but I think the path that I chose was unique. Um, there's a lot of times a perception about who an attorney is and that, you know, people will say, "Oh, you love to argue. You're going to be a great lawyer." And, you know, there's a time and place for that, you know, for lawyers. But you know many of them what really makes them successful is you know the ability to analyze the situation you know see things from both sides you know be able to bring people to the table and you know have you know stakeholders sitting at the table and you know trying to find some middle ground um you know I feel like those are things that I do every day you know with my job here at McKenley. So, you know, there's definitely a way I found a way to blend, you know, my legal education with this, but ultimately came down to I'm doing something that I absolutely love doing. Um, you know, and I I couldn't be happier.

[3:38]  Anal you're doing it so well that Peter said, "You're like Moses." So, Peter, what did he do to earn that kind of reference? There there are times where he there when we even met you know you know we love storytelling right that's what connected Emil and myself right we love movies we love storytelling and you know we we asked about you know who is his character his persona that he puts on right when it comes to leading McKinley this organization and even taken to these levels and it was so interesting out of all the people you know he he called himself Sarah Connor the unsung hero right the one the person who's really trying to save humanity in the Terminator series is not for herself or himself, right? Just for the future. And ever since that time, you know, I've noticed how humble Anneil is and the things he's the things that he does. Uh Moses had a cousin when he needed to go speak to Pharaoh. Sometimes I feel like I need to go and toot the horn of Anneil of who he is. Tot the horn of McKinley as well and the amazing people, the community, the lives that it impacts as well. That's why I think I called him most as well because he's actually led us in so many different changes, so many different eras. Um and we we know he's going to take us to those other um really greener pastures and honestly sometimes in my with the the path is not known but we know that Emil with his guidance we we had undeniable savings we should appreciate that man what brings you to Mckenley I mean the organization obviously to be a board member is not because you're being paid for it is out of purpose. What what is the why behind it? Um, it's really funny you mentioned that as well because a lot of people, you know, when I ask them as well like they ever want to get involved with a charity, they think they need to come from a certain background or, you know, something might have to happen to them, like something traumatic or something else. And really, it's not that at all. It's really just putting other people before yourselves, caring a little bit more about others, paying it forward. Uh, myself, you know, my story, I, you know, coming from Southern California, I work for Johnson and Johnson, other places like Edward Life Sciences, so healthcare marketing, social media, some agencies as well. met a lot of people as well, but I always felt like even working with patients, there was something else about giving back to the community. And so there were a couple other organizations I work with. I am so fortunate that a person introduced me uh Kimberly Murray introduced me to Anneil Anne Neil's team at McKinley as well. And it was just finding the the secret team, the secret community, the secret organization that's been helping underneath like behind the scenes. And I just want to be part of this organization as well because everything that we do is just helping the next person, helping the person give them another chance to get back on their feet.

[6:14]  I love that.

[6:16]  And you know, I love why Peter joined, but I think it's also cool that there's three men on here and we all show love to each other and it doesn't happen often. Too much ego in a room, right? Too much pride in a room. How important is it for you, Anneil, to make sure there is no ego, that there is no pride, that you actually just build a board of just leaders that understand what the mission looks like, uh, and all you guys being on one page. How important is that for you as a leader?

[6:43]  It, you know, it it's critical, Ephraine, and I, you know, something that I always believe in that I think the the best leaders are are humble leaders. um ones that know that they don't have the answer to everything, that they need help, that they need to collaborate with other people in the room. They need to understand people who understand that everybody around the table has um a talent to share. Um I think that's critical for leadership. I think it's critical for organizations like McKenley who do community- based work that, you know, really have to go out and connect with stakeholders and figure out, you know, what do the communities need and how can we be a part of it? Um, you know, Peter's been on our board now for a few years and, you know, Peter is uh, you know, wonderful at that, you know, in terms of bringing people together and really soliciting input from everybody. Um, and that's really what board membership um, for a nonprofit is about. It's about figuring out how you individually can contribute to the success of an organization and how you can, you know, kind of open up your rolodex. I'm dating myself here. Nobody has a rolodex anymore, but how you can open up that rolodex and figure out like who do I know? Uh whether it's through personal contacts, professional contact, you know, your church, you know, whoever it may be that, you know, would have some interest in supporting the work that we do. Um and that's really what uh makes a somebody who serves on a board of a nonprofit successful. And we're lucky we have a lot of people on our board that do exactly that. Peter is one perfect example of that. Um, but we have so many folks on our board that really are willing to do that and kind of champion be a champion of our cause and you have to do that without ego. You have to do that understanding that the mission of the organization comes first.

[8:29]  Yeah. No, I agree. I just I from the first time I met you guys, it was just so much love and you know, men don't show love to each other like that. So, I'm like, wait a minute. This is definitely, you know, a Neil just being great at what he does. So, Peter just wants to shine light on it and I appreciated Peter for being that as well. But I I think that you guys are more than nonprofit, right? McKinley is not just a nonprofit. It's the last light left on for some families. Um, and you mentioned Rose. There was a story about Rose. Why her story is everything McKinley stands for. Can you tell us about the story so people can understand what McKinley really stands for here?

[9:05]  Yeah, Peter, please.

[9:06]  Sure thing. um you know it was at our school in Sand Deus and it was one of those touching graduation stories and Rose came on you know at the podium and she just told us about I mean honestly she doesn't really know anyone in the stage and we don't know her as well uh but she said hi everyone I just want everyone to know that you know in the last four years I've been through seven different high schools eight different families if you would have told me four years ago that I'd be standing here graduating today I would have laughed in your face actually I would have punched you in your face cuz that's where I was at that point you you know, and through everyone giving up on me, it just took one family, one organization to not give up on me and to truly believe on me, even when I gave them every reason not to. And that's why I'm here today. And and I had to turn away from our CFO, George, cuz he's a military guy. I had to turn away. I had the tears in my eyes, you know, but I, you know, it's one of those it's those stories that keep you in, keep you locked in, but let you know the results, the impact that you truly make, you know, that sometimes not everyone gets to hear, but those are the stories that we like to share as well because those are the ones that come from our community. Those are the lives that we're trying to change.

[10:08]  That's good. I I do believe that sometimes we are so comfortable doing the same thing over and over and there's those stories that realize that, man, this is what I do it for. Uh and that you guys, you know, share that story and and I can't wait for Rose to continue that career path and what it actually looks like when now she's kind of in the same seat giving back. Right now she's the anal in the situation and someone's highly talking about what she's done. I just had another leader. She was a doctor and she got into the space of really giving back because she remembers that 5-year-old 5-year-old version of herself looking at her mom making $5 more so she couldn't get food stamp. So she's rocking back and forth like how am I supposed to feed my family? I can't even afford food stamps. This is someone that didn't drive that was taking, you know, buses back and forth, had three kids, was in, you know, bad relationships. So when we talk about just helping people, right, and what that actually does for the generation now on when someone shows up like you two shows up with passion, you're not worrying about the paycheck. You're really just wanting to make a difference. And Neil, I go back to you, man. Like where does this you've been doing this for so long when you could really be doing something different, right? We mentioned at the beginning of it, you could really be maybe, you know, owning an island somewhere, Neil, cuz you're that talented, right? You're that good. But you decided to really give to this space, man. What's the why behind that? Like where does this all stem from? The giving heart.

[11:29]  Um, you know, I really wish I could say that there was maybe like one thing or maybe even one moment that um kind of put me on this path and I don't know that there is outside of I think that there was kind of it's a kind of a collection of experiences that I've had where you know I've always believed in giving. I've always believed that, you know, we that the fortune that that we're blessed with, you know, we really have an obligation to pay it forward and help others. Um I was raised that way, you know, I have a wonderful wife, you know, who also believes in that too. So, you know, she reinforces that, you know, for me as well. Um I will say that, you know, becoming a father three years ago also really changes, you know, your perspective on everything. And I know all of us here are dads. Um and so you know there there's nothing that you do now that looks the same that you know when you were before you know you were a a parent and you know so a lot of this is also about what do I want my son to learn you know about the world around him about the privilege that he has um you know about how he can help others um you know and about how I you know my hope is is that one day long after I'm gone he's going to be driving around uh you know in in a in in our communities and he's going to be seeing McKinley signs in everywhere and know that hey that that was a little bit part of you know what my dad did to help you know to help others and help the community and so you know I would say kind of like again kind of like this collection of experiences that really you know makes me want to figure out how can I leave things better than what how I found it. Um I think that's my ultimate goal with this and uh um yeah

[13:11]  I like that. Okay. I I there's a question that I've been I've been asked recently and I've been asking the last leaders because Peter obviously says you're an amazing leader. Is leadership taught or are you born with it?

[13:24]  You know, it's a good question. Um you know, I think there's characteristics about leadership that um that are innate within people.

[13:33]  Um but I think like every skill, you have to learn it, you have to polish it. um the things that I do now as a leader um well I should say the things that I did early on in my in my career as a leader you I wouldn't do now you know because I learned um I'm a big believer in coaching um I had the benefit of uh uh you know being mentored by a leadership coach um and that would tre that helped me a lot and it's something that I would recommend to anybody who's stepping into a leadership role for the first time that um you there's skills that you have to learn, you know, just in terms of like how do you effectively lead, but I would say some of the traits that are important. Um, you know, as I mentioned, I really believe all leaders have to be humble. They have to understand that they don't know everything. Um, they have to be willing to listen to everybody. I think those are things that, you know, you you bring, you know, to the table as a leader, whether you have any experience or not. I think the skills you learn, but you have to be willing to learn them. And you know, fortunately, as I said, I've had the benefit of, you know, being mentored and being coached, you know, by folks. Um, so, you know, I would say kind of a combination of both is really what makes an effective leader.

[14:50]  What what what made you want to say a coach is what I need. Is it because you've heard that it was what other people were doing? Because you were in sports and you understood, you know, I can't do this alone, so I need someone to coach me through it. What was that mindset? I think sometimes leaders do need coaches and there's that pride and ego that stops them from doing so.

[15:10]  You know, something I I I learned a long time ago and it really stuck with me is that the world's best athletes have coaches. Uh Michael Jordan had a coach,

[15:21]  you know. So this isn't about and I think that again goes back to humility you know of understanding that just because you acknowledge that you could benefit from coaching it doesn't make you worse at what you do it makes you understand that there's always something that somebody can help you along with um you know help you with a challenge that you're facing or you know helping you get better in a certain area you know so that's really kind of why I felt like I could benefit from coaching um you you know, it's again, it's because it's it wasn't a it wasn't um it it wasn't because I felt like I was lacking something. Um it was really more about how do I take things to the next level? How do I take what's in my mind and actually put it into action? And that's what a coach does for you. If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure you guys share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works. This is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you.

[16:31]  Okay. And Peter, your thoughts, man. When you talk about leadership, do you think this is something that people are born with, life experiences brings you here? What is your what's your opinion on this? I think this reminds me of that Disney movie where it was like the greyhound who grew up like a dachshund, right? Because I I think everyone could be nurtured or everyone could be a better version of themselves. But truly with leaders, you know, I've been uh I've been through so many different organizations, right? Um pharmaceuticals, other sales, other organizations. when I went to the nonprofit and I met Anneil and especially Anneil the reason why it's different and it's not anything better as well but you know most leaders of large organizations it's almost like they come from out of the box a template business school right we know and the reason why anal what separated him from most leaders that I met as well the thing that was different is that he was a compassionate leader not only obviously with leaders you have to worry about growth right you have to worry about um evolving and honestly you know uh making sure that everyone's taking care and operationally sound. But anal is actually very compassionate, which is different as well. It's not just all about the bottom line. And I know even in the the nonprofit sector, it's you think that would be more the norm. It really isn't. Anneil is a very compassionate leader where I think he needs to lead because of the type of person he is, he cares the most about people. So the decisions he makes even though they're very strategic and they could be far you know far out as well he thinks about how the team can come together how the impact of a community come together that compassion mindset I think is what sets him apart from most other leaders I've ever met. So yes I do believe it can be nurtured because just by me being around him in this kind of thinking and being with McKinley and the other leaders um I have changed as well with the way I actually raise my children my family and my teams as well. I got a question because you you mentioned two movies already. Do you love movies? Is that your thing? Is that your thing, man?

[18:25]  I feel like, you know, growing up maybe as a first generation born here, immigrant. You know, my parents, we know we love movies. Uh we love movie. I think it's what connected all different tribes in America, right? It's just Hollywood or different stories as well cuz storytelling around the campfire. I think that's what connects us all, right? The experiences that we have.

[18:44]  Yeah. No, it's good. I mean, I'm It's always funny. I had a leader one time and everything he said was always a reference to movie but I'm the person I never got it because I didn't watch the movie right like so he would always say something and laugh he's like did you ever watch it I'm like sorry can't laugh at it but I love it is it's relatable a lot of people you especially Disney we can go to Disney and a lot of people would probably watch those movies but I just thought about that was the second movie reference and you know do you get the movie references when he when he drops them

[19:10]  this is a constant conversation with Peter and I we're always referencing movies I tend to do that a lot in a lot of my meetings you who here with my team and things like that. I keep joking with them that I got my MBA from Hollywood because I I'm constantly quoting movies.

[19:26]  No, that's good. I love it.

[19:28]  I also want to talk about man

[19:30]  because it makes me wonder if you have a rolling list of movies or books you need to go I have that too, right? Just make sure. Right. Uh the other day I uh I think we're talking to some team members and one of the team members um she didn't know who Val Kilmer was and so I went oh either I aged myself or I have to completely box up these references and put them away from completely different a Yeah.

[19:50]  No. Yeah. There's definitely some times I'll have like mail on my desk and someone will say something and I'm writing on a piece of mail like I got to I got to look this up next time so I know what they're referencing too. But no man, I I I love this and I love Anil that um just Peter speaking on your leadership right and really caring for people. How do you actually show up for staff that they're grieving, they're exhausted, they're scared while holding your own fear? Yeah, you know, it's it's not easy and especially now in nonprofits. There's a lot going on as I'm sure you know, things in at the federal level and in California, there's there's a lot of changes happening where, you know, we do have a lot of our team that are um scared, you know, um certainly worried, you know, in terms of the future, you know, for them and for the families and things. Um, you know, I I think the biggest thing I try to do is just is is just as you had mentioned, showing up. I think so much in life is about showing up and being there for people. Um, I don't have all the answers. I I I am very open with everybody that there are some challenges that look, I really wish I I I I could tell you something, but I I I can't right now. Um, you know, it's kind of this idea that we're all in this together. we're all trying to figure this out. Um, you know, one of the things I try to do, um, you know, for all of the new team members that we have, um, that that join us, and we're a large organization, so, you know, we're constantly hiring new team members and things like that, I always try to meet with everybody on their first day, usually in my office. Um, you know, it's because I want them to get to know me and who I am and, you know, know where to find me and things like that. Um it's also an opportunity for me to get to know them a little bit better so that you know they see me as a person. Um you know that really helps because you know when I am trying when I am you know knowing about some of the struggles that our team is going through it gives me a little bit of a better perspective on maybe how I can be present for them. Um but you know it's it's it's a challenge. Um you know we we try to connect our team to whatever resources we have available. you know, like we have an employee assistance program and things like that. But, you know, I I I really find that a lot of times it's just it really is just about being present, listening, um, you know, trying to understand what they're going through while understanding too that you're not in their shoes. So, you can never fully understand their experience. Um, but just the act of being present, I think it's just it's so important. And I think when we think about anybody else that we may have um helped in the past, whether it's a family member or maybe if even you're going through a personal struggle, a lot of times that's really just what you need is that human connection of somebody being able to listen to you who doesn't have the answers, but they're there, they listen to you, they care about you. You know, when when we're doing our work with the uh children and families that we work with, the biggest thing that we try to impart on everyone is is that you can take any type of theory that you have in terms of, you know, treatment services, therapy, whatever. The main reason people get better is because they believe the person sitting across from them cares about them, that there's a genuine care for them. Um, and that's something first and foremost we we we make sure we emphasize with all of our team that that's the first thing we have to do is establish that that we care about you. We care about your outcome. We want you to get better. That story that Peter gave about Rose and you know certainly there's other stories like that too. That all happened because we had a team of teachers at our school and counselors and you know that said we care about you. We care about your future. Um that's why she's a success story and she's going to do go on and do great things in life.

[23:47]  Tell us a little bit more about McKinley. You mentioned uh just kind of briefly. Can we talk about some of the services programs you guys got in place for those that are still tuning in know exactly what McKinley is about?

[23:55]  Yeah, absolutely. You know McKinley we started out in 1900 I think as I'd mentioned before. So 125th anniversary. You know started out as an orphanage you know for children. It was started by a pastor and his wife. Um, since then we've grown, you know, we've evolved. We're now what we call a community-based organization, uh, human services organization. So, we work with populations and communities that have been disadvantaged. Um, you know, and and we provide a variety of services. We work with youth and foster care, so we provide, you know, services for them. Um, housing, you know, being one of them. Um, we do behavioral health, so a lot of mental health counseling that we do for the community. that's really eligible that a lot of a lot of people in the community are eligible for and we encourage them to take advantage of it. Uh we operate two schools that are designed for children that have various learning disabilities. So that's that's the program that that that that Peter was talking about about Rose and you know how you know she she became a success. Um these are schools that are designed to help you know students with various learning disabilities graduate and then move on. Um, you know, we also do a lot of work with adults and I think that's something that a lot of people don't know about McKenley. Um, we have a program where we provide um, help for those who have experienced homelessness and it's really with the goal of making sure that homelessness is part of their history and not part of their future. Um, you know, one of the things that, you know, if I could just share a little success story there too and we actually had this um, individual on do an interview for us. You know, she consented to it. you know, she was someone that had struggled with, you know, various, you know, you know, things, you know, substance abuse and that led to homelessness. Um, one of the things that she said after getting counseling services from us, she's now in stable housing. She's doing much better now for herself, but she had said that the help that she got from the team here impacted three generations because it helped to repair obviously herself, her relationship with her mother, and then her relationship with her child. um you know that's the impact of and again all that came from somebody caring somebody not giving up in that program they our team will go and meet um the individuals wherever they are there's been so many times they found them like under an underpass and said no come back in we let's get back let's get you back into therapy let's get you back in you know and they never gave up on them um you know that's and that's really again kind of going back to foundationally how people get better it's because They know that people other people care about them.

[26:32]  Yeah, I I 100% agree with you. I have these conversations all the time because I still have family myself that is still kind of in similar spaces where they just need someone to believe in them. Um someone to see them for who they are and give them the opportunity. And and I I'm a big believer that when you're on that journey, it is also very crucial that you surround yourself with positive people, you know. And I say that because I have um family that trying to do well, but when you keep talking to that person that's still stuck in the past,

[27:04]  bring it's so easy to bring you back down, right? And it looks like you guys really help them even when they're getting pulled back down that you guys still show up and say, "Hey, we didn't forget about you." And that means so much as you mentioned, three generations changed because you weren't just focusing on that young child, you were focusing on the adult. And a lot of people miss that point. we will always help our youth to be the best next leader, but what happens to that person that just needs a little bit of loving, you know, because life was lifing. So, I love that you guys are in the space and and there is no not just, you know, just kids, but let's also help those parents because we could truly make a difference that way as well. And as you guys continue to make a difference, you guys continue to grow, we've also mentioned about innovation such as AI. Some would say that AI cannot humanize an organization. Uh that it doesn't have any empathy, that it's scary, that we, you know, there's so many people really against it. I'm a big believer that listen, I couldn't be where I am today without AI. I mean, I would be there, but not as soon as I got here, right? AI really played a part in that. What do you guys think about AI? Are you guys at McKinley thinking about AI? Is it something already implemented? What are your beliefs? I'll start with with Peter, man. I know we haven't heard from Peter here in just a bit. Yeah, you can actually see it even in our meetings as well. You know, I think it's about taking the uh you know the thoughtful approach to see to not eliminate jobs or anything or services but more is how do you actually elevate people's existing performance? How do you help them? How do you gain back time? How do you help them take better notes? I know even when our meetings, our board meetings, we have a AI noteaker which is great, right? Summarize those notes and that's even right there. It allows someone to be more present in our meetings. So that's the impact that I even felt on our board meetings.

[28:42]  Love it. and Ania what where do you see AI going and what are you guys doing?

[28:46]  Yeah, you know we're um um I believe in many ways at the forefront of it especially in in our space. Um I believe AI when used properly can humanize an organization um especially organizations like Mckenley because what it really does is it allows you to be us to be more present. Um and one of the things that uh you know and it's a it's a responsibility we have you know is the documentation after we provide services and things like that and it's the one thing that most therapists and you know people who do the services will tell you that brings them the least amount of joy you know is to be sitting at a computer typing out a note you know and and things like that or reports and things um but it's important and so we know we have to do that and this is where a tool like AI can come in it can help them, you know, take what would be a half hour, 40-minute task, compress it into 10 minutes, and the benefit of that is that now they have more time to be present. Um, you know, I've um used this example before, but you know, we can all think about somebody in our past that was influential to us. You know, it may have been a teacher, it may have been a coach, it may have been, you know, whoever it may have been. We don't look back at that person and say that they were they made that impact on you because they were good at paperwork. You know, they we we say that they were impactful because again the time they spent with you that they were present for you. And that's really how I see tools like AI being helpful. Um I think there's an ethical way to use AI, you know, too. And you know, certainly in our field, we're seeing more and more conversation about it. there are some um you know there are some apps and things where they were using chat bots and things like that you know to uh you know kind of simulate you know what what a a conversation with a therapist would be you know and so I think there's there's a lot of conversation that still needs to happen about how you can use AI in our space um but I definitely think it's a tool that when used properly can help you be more present

[30:51]  yeah and I think more present and do more of the things you actually love Right. Uh I think we see that in the medical field where uh now we're actually getting note takers in rooms so doctors can actually look at you and have a conversation versus looking down at a pad the whole time trying to make sure there's notes taken. And I think that also plays for us a role for us as well. You know that all this admin work like who really loves to do admin work? I don't know anybody that says I want to go to college to do admin work. I haven't heard that. It's you want to become a teacher, you want to become, you know, a doctor, whatever it may look like. and and all admin I mean AI could kind of help on those admin tasks you know really help uh direct that conversation on what it looks like and and what I love about it is if prompted well you could pass this along through the organization and anything being created is now on brand right because you've created that we've learned how to prompt and I'm always a big believer as you mentioned it is a resource and a tool and AI will not replace someone someone that is not educated in AI or doesn't know how to prompt AI I will be replaced by someone that does. That's just the way I look at it. So, I love that you guys are on the forefront in seeing that. And I can only imagine there's still some challenges, right? Um getting people to get uncomfortable and try something new. But it happened when we got computers and people thought that was a thing or or social media came around and that was going to take over the world. I mean, it did affect the world a little bit and AI definitely will. But it's we have to make sure that we're using AI and AI is not using us. And I I think that's really where the scary parts at. But Peter, man, um I want to kind of go you had something on it that you want to talk about. Uh one uh thing I wanted to mention as well because you know we keep tabs on the trends of AI because it's you know it's lightning speed it changes every day but one interesting thing you know uh you know leading digital strategy also social media one thing you you know I read as well with AI is that this year in 2025 the number two use case especially around uh younger demographics they use it for therapy and just seeing that as well makes us think you know maybe the stigmas the walls are getting broken down are people who are actually needing the help who actually want to go and actually seek seek professional help from somebody and know that it's not taboo anymore, that it's okay to actually reach out. That is actually very encouraging to us, but also makes us also think maybe there's so many other people that we can that McKinley needs to go and help and reach out to.

[33:03]  That's funny you say that. But I was just speaking to someone and she said um she's maybe late 60s I believe mid-60s and she said her daughter told her about Chad GPT because her daughter uses it as her counselor

[33:15]  and she and I so you know we you said it earlier anal we love to think with everybody else's brain but no we love to think with ours as much but not as everybody else's everybody else may use AI differently and it helps them very different ways right so what I'm hearing a lot of leaders say is no there's no way that AI can play a part because it's going to dehumanize what we do and you can't, you know, you can't show empathy, you can't show that, but so many young kids now, especially because mental health is like another hot topic that they're actually using to have those conversations, right? Um, so I I love that you did bring that up because people are fearing AI, but it's because they haven't tried it. I spoke to a leader the other day as well where I I as soon as I said chat GPT, she said, "No, no, no, no, no. I I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. People tried and I'm just not going to do it." So, I sat here and a lot of times you just got to show someone. So, I screen shared with her and I I'm starting to show her. I'm like, you're letting someone else. Especially when she told me she hired a marketing agency to create like branded stuff, you know, the way that she talks, her scripts. And I'm like, someone else is creating that and it's not even in your voice. You could do this chat DPT. Save so much more money, so much more time, and in your own voice. So, I I love that you guys are are into it, man, and really adapting to it the way that Anneil mentioned. I'm in the forefront. You know, not a lot of people can actually say that. Um,

[34:35]  you know, we um last year we um had the honor of be presenting at the Mingram One conference um myself and some of my team members. And the whole purpose of that conference or one of the themes behind it was just exactly that about how organizations like McKinley are using AI to humanize their organizations. And so there was a nice panel that we had there in front of you know it was a big audience but you know we're able to share just some case studies about how we're utilizing this and um you know we really believe it's going to provide it it it already is providing a lot of benefits but it will as we continue to roll it out and more and more people use it that it just helps people be more present. I know that, you know, for me, if it takes me, you know, 2 hours to put a document together or a proposal together and now I can cut that down in 30 minutes, that's now time I have to be present for something else and to again humanize myself more.

[35:30]  I say Chad GBT is my best friend. Like it's my assistant, my chief of staff, it is whatever you need it to be as long as you're pumped. Well,

[35:38]  Peter, what snapped into you, man, at 40 that made you say, "I'm done chasing titles." I remember you mentioning that. um our last conversation.

[35:46]  I think it was just my race to actually go and get a title or a certain sense of in my mind what I thought was accomplishment or security, you know, and just climb that corporate ladder as soon as fast as possible. Sacrifice time with loved ones, birthdays, you know, other celebration just to make sure that you get to that destination as soon as possible. But once I hit it, and I'm glad I hit it sooner rather than later, you realized you can't skip the journey. Maybe you might have even been not I I wouldn't say, you know, um too focused on just the actual destinations versus actually wondering, you know, you know, maybe even side quest or meeting these other people or, you know, really enjoying the process of getting to where you need to go. And that's why I love that as well because then, you know, it made me realize it's not about titles. It's more about the impact. And how do you make an impact? It truly is the relationships you have with people, what you're doing for others, what you're doing for your community. Uh and I know Harvard just came out with that study. I think it was a longit you know longitudinal study with over um you know 80 years of what's the key to happiness or even longevity and it's you know for people after 50 it is your relationships with others. It doesn't have to do with the vitamins, the amount of kale juice you've drinking, you drunk your whole, you know, it really is the relationships that you have secured and and you know, really have nurtured throughout the years, the ones that you've really cared about, the ones you haven't let go. So then it made me really think about what do I really want to do this next chapter of my life, the next big block, right? really is, you know, making that impact, um, meeting others, really doing anything to even help someone take that positive step in the right direction to where they need to go because I know without the people in my life who've given me that direction and Neil's one of those as well. One of the most influential people in my life, you know, who knows where I would I'd have ended up.

[37:32]  This is and Neil, he's so kind, isn't he, Neil? You're paying this guy to say all these good things about you, man. One thing I love that you said, Peter, is that can't skip the journey. To me, the journey is what makes us. There's so much to learn on that journey, right? Good and bad. You know, all those times that we lose or we fail, there's still lessons on that journey. So, I love that you mentioned that for a lot of people, they they we're really in a space chat DPT. I used to say everyone wanted the Amazon effect, right? That was like two day same day shipping. But now we have the chat GPT effect that is so instant and everyone wants it but you have to go through the journey you know you have to have those experiences we talked about leadership a little earlier to me I'm a big believer that uh my life experiences would led me to be a leader that I am today you know so just imagine if I would have skipped the journey I wouldn't be here with you guys you know having these conversations so I love that you actually mentioned that and a lot of people should remember do not skip a journey uh you know find those coaches that can actually coach you through that journey if anything so how we plug those two together anal how do you spot the difference though, man, between someone that is a really good board member, right, and is adding value, uh, versus someone that is just filling a seat.

[38:45]  Um, you know, I I I I think it's it gets very obvious and I really think not just with boards, but uh, anywhere, whether, you know, it's team members that are that are working, you know, here here at the organization or, you know, in any other in anything else that you're doing, the main thing we look for is engagement. you know, like are are they truly interested in what we're doing? And are they truly asking themselves what can I personally do to help promote what you're doing? Um, you know, so that the organization can be more successful, we can reach more people, have a greater impact, um, help, you know, produce more success stories. Um, you know, those are really the individuals who make the most, um, effective, you know, board members. You know, I mean, again, Peter being one of them, of course, that, you know, is constantly thinking about, you know, who is it that I know? How can I help educate people about what this organization is doing and how um they can make a difference in other in in other people's lives. And, you know, you can tell by just how active they are in in in meetings and how often they show up to the events that we have and how many people they introduce to the organization. It's like, "Hey, Anneil, you need to go talk to this person. This person's wonderful." And you know th those are the indiv those are the board members that really make an impact and I think those are the ones that also find the most fulfillment in what they do you know because there are responsibilities of being on a board that aren't so fun. Um well they they may be fun for some but I mean it's the things that people don't necessarily associate with being on the board of a nonprofit. You know they have to review financials they have to review you know all of these things that come with their fiduciary responsibilities. So you know we have to take care of business you know but then this is also the way for them to stay engaged you know is by thinking who else can I talk to about this organization you know who can I introduce to this organization you know that's really kind of how again they stay more engaged and they feel more fulfilled you know in their responsibilities dropping gems right there okay Peter you going to add to that I

[40:50]  I think like Emil said it perfectly and I I think you know like we you mentioned before you know we're all either leaders ers or fathers or men and we're running at such a fast pace especially in this age now doing so many things and sometimes we feel like we can't even accomplish everything right and and a day ends you go how many you almost look like what didn't I you know what wasn't I able to accomplish you you feel bad about yourself sometimes but being part of McKinley this organization whenever I'm here or with I never second guessess myself or the time I give you know being part of the organization there's never anything of should I be spending my time better you know can I be making more. Should I be doing something different? I've never had that. And that is such a calming sense of peace of mind that I I love about McKinley because you truly are just present and you aren't you're just giving yourself to people that you might not, you know, that just this organization and the community as well. And that is something that I truly have been blessed with uh to be part of with this organization as well. And so I really thank all the leaders as well, you know, with Neil, uh, Dustin, Chris, Grace, Mario, um, you know, so many with George, so many of the different leaders I've met as well. And so many amazing of our board members who have the same kind of mentality where it is more about others versus ourselves. And so that is great to have that kind of mindset as well. Do

[42:12]  you guys feel like there's any kind of leaders that we need more of right now? You guys both smiled like you've had this conversation before. So,

[42:23]  I don't know what the hell's going on here. Oh, maybe I'll let you go first.

[42:31]  I think I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to uh keep hitting on the same theme of that compassionate leader. You know, I think that's why I was drawn to this organization. Uh I think that's why the team members, you know, are so drawn to this as well. You know, even when you even when you start any meeting with McKinley, there's a check-in where everyone gets a moment to really be seen. And it's not just, hi, how this is my weekend. This is the amazing things that I've done. It's not the social media, you know, expectation versus reality. Some of these are real. The you know, this is what I just went through. This is my moment to actually share where I currently am. And it's amazing to see people actually reach out to connect and you know to not only just be vulnerable but to have anyone else share and go actually I've been through something that you've been through or you know I could be here for you or just whatever you need. If you just need a hug or just to be heard we're here for you

[43:18]  and yourself in you.

[43:20]  Yeah. You know I I agree with everything Peter said just about compassion. I think that's just in general we need more of that. You know, I would also say maybe just to add to that too, just leaders at that are um willing to hear from everybody um and are balanced in their approach. I think that's so important. Um you know, somebody a long time ago taught me that, you know, everything that I hear as a leader, just take it in as information at first. Don't make any decisions. Don't make any judgments based on it. Just take everything in as information and then figure it out later. I think there's more of that is needed. Just being willing to listen. Um, again, knowing you don't have all the answers and there might be a perspective that somebody's bringing that you never even thought of, but you have to be open-minded enough to listen. I agree. I love that. Before we get into the blind question, guys, because we got to start wrapping things up. Where can we find more of the organization? Where can we find both gentlemen? Are you guys on LinkedIn? Let's share that information for those that may be still watching and want to know how to tap into you guys.

[44:21]  Yeah. Oh, thank you. Definitely both of us are on LinkedIn. very active. So, please, you know, connect with us there. Uh, McKinley has a LinkedIn page as well where you can get a lot of information about us. Um, you can check out our website, uh, mckinleycc.org. Um, a lot of good information there. And we're also on the other social media platforms, Facebook, Instagram. So, yeah, definitely, uh, yeah, please connect with us.

[44:43]  All right, you guys ready for that blind question?

[44:45]  I'm ready.

[44:47]  If your younger self could see who you're leading now, what would shock the most? I'll start with uh let's start with Peter. We'll start with Peter.

[44:57]  I think is that I still have a good head of hair.

[45:02]  All that, you know, we've been through these last couple of years, you know, um to still have that smile, you know, to to still know that every day is a challenge and still to say just bring it on. I think that is that is definitely something I I yeah, I I cherish or something I I dawn and wear.

[45:20]  That is too funny. I would tell you what, I was brushing my hair today before I got on with you guys and I think I seen another white hair and I'm like, what in the world is happening, Peter? Hopefully I'm not losing my hair, Peter. Hopefully, man, join the club.

[45:34]  Well, what's up with Peter, man? He's not What? You got none, Peter? None at all. What's going on?

[45:39]  I'm so stepped back. I wanted to make sure you guys don't see the real what's really going on. I had to make sure. Yeah,

[45:47]  ideal. Same question, man. If your younger self could see who you're leading now, what would shock them the most?

[45:52]  You know, it was if I went first, I was going to make a hair comment, so I'll I'll I'll

[45:58]  you know, I I think my younger self would probably look at me now and just say, you really have become your dad. Um, and not so much in a bad way, but just, you know, just looking at myself as, you know, I'm I'm in my 50s now. I'm a dad. I'm a husband. um you know and uh you know it's just I it's life is just very different for me right now and I'm almost like a completely different person than I was you know 20 30 years ago. I think there would probably be a little bit of an amazement of like yeah you're you're you're just like dad now.

[46:31]  I love that. I love that. So Neil I I'll bring it to you man. I believe uh we'll we'll finish with a blind question that you want to ask the next leader. What is the question that you would like to ask the next leader? You know, something I'm always um curious about is how leaders help their team through challenging times and particularly when they know that maybe a mistake was made. Um you know, it's I'm always kind of curious about how leaders help their team navigate through a mistake knowing that organizations grow because people are willing to take risks, but with that comes mistakes from time to time and you know hopefully it's something that's done as a way to teach teams and you know to learn from. I'm always curious about how leaders go through that process with their teams when when they know a mistake was made.

[47:15]  Okay, I appreciate it. Well, guys, I Peter, do you have another blind quest that we could take?

[47:19]  Uh, no, that actually interested in that one as well. I love the one you gave to Anne Neil. That was so actually deep. That was actually really well. Yeah,

[47:26]  about that for the rest of the day. Yeah,

[47:30]  Neil did his homework. Neil did his homework.

[47:31]  People also uh say same thing, right? Do we become our parents? But also, do you marry like your parent as well, right? they always say, you know, like

[47:39]  exactly who your partner ends up being. Uh, but yeah, that's very very interesting.

[47:43]  Well, guys, I want to say I appreciate both of you guys for taking the time to be able to do this so we can continue to speak to leaders, those that are aspiring to be leaders. Um, but also those that may be kind of in that space of like, man, I don't know what to do right now. You know, um, as you mentioned a little earlier, the government and all the funding cuts and a lot of people are now going probably through this imposter syndrome and it's not really on them, but how do we continue to leap forward? And I think both you guys have dropped gems on it. I definitely appreciate both you guys. Guys, continue to like, subscribe, and comment. Continue to just if you guys want to know more about these organizations that you do follow them on social media, but also Peter and Ano on LinkedIn if you want to just get into the inbox. Don't be afraid to speak to other leaders. I think there's a stigma that you cannot speak to this CEO of a company, but I think the CEO is he's waiting, doors open, waiting for someone to ask the question because that's what leaders do. We pour into each other. We pour into others. It's not about us. You know that you know that, Peter, right? As we become parents, we realize it's not about us. So, thank you guys for watching. My name is Ephrain. This is Anil. And this is Peter. We'll catch you guys on the next one. Lers.