"We Had Humans Doing AI's Job for 12 Years" - Shasta Health's Garrett Olin

[0:00]  In a world that is chasing AI, Garrett doubled down on humans and he built a system that doctors actually love. So Garrett, let's kind of start to it, man. You worn many hats than most CIOS will ever probably wear. What's the throughine that brought you to healthcare?

[0:18]  Well, you know, it it's uh started at a young age. Um, you know, I I as a a very young child, uh, growing up, uh, thought I'd be a neurosurgeon, actually. Um, then, you know, got got around to hitting puberty and things and got more interested in girls and sports and then realized just how long it would take to become a neurosurgeon and decided that was not the path for me. Um and like you said, you know, been in many different industries and things like that. Uh but about a decade ago or so, uh went to my wife and said, you know what, I want to finish my career in healthcare. Uh had that that love of, you know, science, medicine, um and just wanting to help people uh has always been a personal mission of mine. So, uh, just kind of pivoted and, uh, got into the healthc care field and here I am today.

[1:19]  So, I know we're talking about healthcare right now, but is that as as I was looking at your background, I see that you also have dinosaurs and almost like you have just nature. Are you a nature type of guy? Like, do you love the jungle? Like, what's up with these dinosaurs, man?

[1:32]  Yeah. So, we uh we always do a theme for Halloween. And uh my first year here, the the administration department uh decided to do Toy Story. So I was a Rex. Uh had the big inflatable T-Rex who, you know, running through pediatrics and stuff like that. Um and then it just kind of stuck with me. So then people started giving me little dinosaurs and things like that.

[2:02]  That is too funny. So really they do it almost as a joke now. They just want you to remember that time you walked across

[2:09]  Yeah. That's that's how they remember me. So I I'll come in to work and there'll be something sitting on my desk and then the pictures behind me. I love photography. So these are some of the photos I took in different places around

[2:20]  your photos.

[2:21]  Yeah, those are mine. Yep.

[2:23]  Wow. Is that Is that something people don't know of you? Like you're secretly a photographer.

[2:28]  Uh yeah, a lot of people don't realize it. I mean, I I talk about it from time to time, but yeah, a lot of people don't know that. Yeah.

[2:36]  Wow. Especially that first photo all the way to your right. That's that's a a neat photo, man. Where's these photos taken?

[2:44]  Uh Tanzania in Serenetti, the lions. Uh I think the one over this shoulder is a jaguar in Brazil. Um and then I think the other one is a leopard. Leopard in a tree. um in uh again in the Serengeti.

[3:05]  Look at you, man. You

[3:06]  there's others around my office that you can't see. So

[3:09]  that is

[3:10]  Antarctica.

[3:11]  I love

[3:12]  stuff like that. So

[3:13]  I love that the T-Rex story actually fell in line with work and what you do. Are you is that your type of vibe? Like you like to be that fun, energy person at at work when it's not too serious?

[3:24]  Yeah. Well, I try to bring levity. Yeah. You know, I like to joke around and things like that. Um, and you know, I can I can make a fool of myself. That's fine.

[3:34]  That's it, man. That's that's the that's the fun part. I'm that guy as well. Like, I don't mind being a clown and making the jokes. I mean, the jokes could be about me and I'm just like, as long as we're all laughing and having fun, like it's truly a key, right, to work with others.

[3:48]  Yeah. I mean, you know, the the workplace is serious, right? And if you can bring a little levity and and lighten the load a little bit by laughter, you know, I'm I'm all for that. Yeah. You also mentioned, Garrett, the last time I spoke to you, you said your goal is to improve life for everyone you touch. What does it actually look like in practice?

[4:07]  So, yeah. So, my my personal, I guess, motto, right, is to to improve the quality of life of those I serve and I basically serve everybody, right? Whether it's the patients we see, the staff, the communities we serve, things like that. Um so it you know it's in many different ways right it could be uh mentoring or or teaching it could be financial it could be um again just just being a listening ear for someone um you know I've had different different uh experiences right where like the homeless you know I I'll talk to them shake their hand things like that and people go nobody ever does that um and it's like why not? They're still people, right? It's it's just circumstances.

[5:00]  We're all human and day, right? We all have that same I was just talking to another leader. We all really all wake up, we all start our days kind of the same, right? Like it the only difference is probably the lifestyle that we live and and how fortunate some of us are versus among us that are not so fortunate. Um it it is very interesting times as well, man. We're also now hit with technology. So add technology into everything that's already happening in our world, right? Where we're where

[5:28]  we're where now people are saying we're already not humanized per se as you mentioned. Not everyone's going to say hello to someone, but now we're in the space of AI. Now it's a big fear like wait a minute, you're telling me I'm losing my job. You're telling me that some of these things are not going to be human centric anymore? What is your thoughts on all this AI technology? Uh, I think there's a place for it. Um, you know, but it it's interesting as it evolves and it's evolving so quickly, right? Um, can it replace humans, if you will, in some areas? Yes.

[6:07]  Okay.

[6:08]  Right. Um, in some areas, no. they they I see it as um as a tool just like any other tool that you utilize. It can improve your efficiency. It can improve um maybe the information that's available to you so that you can make a more informed decision. Um but in the end, you're humans are still going to be needed.

[6:40]  Yeah. And I like what you mentioned the first thing you says will replace humans. Yes. But it's really the things that we don't like doing anyway. Like who likes to sit and do admin work? Who likes to do the repetitive task over and over for hours, right? That's so it's like when people say it's replacing people. I don't want people to think like, oh my god, it's it's replacing a whole needed body. It's not. It's really helping us do our jobs better. Um so we can do the things that we actually love. Some of us went to school for something and then you g give us all this admin task. Look at the doctors what they have to do. They they didn't want to take notes. They didn't want to sit here and do all these different things. But now there's, you know, notetakers in rooms. You know, there's machines that you can put so they can actually focus on the actual patient. Are what are some of the things that you're actually seeing in your space?

[7:31]  So, our organization uh is a little little different. um about 12 15 years ago before I started with the organization uh they made the decision to use live human scribes in the exam rooms with the clinicians um to type those notes, right? So that the clinician can focus on the patient. They're not their face isn't in the keyboard. It's face to face with the patient understanding what's going on. Over time that evolved to where the scribe now started doing a little more right. So in electronic medical records, health records systems um to make sure that you meet the requirements to get paid uh to meet the quality measures, things like that that were based on if you will. um they started you know doing more within those systems and today it's kind of given us a little bit of heartache if you will because we are looking at you know AI scribes um work very well for what it does it takes note right it still allows the clinician to face the patient Um, but what it doesn't do or doesn't do well at the moment in many cases is all that other additional work that the scribes have picked up over the years, right? Checking boxes, filling out forms, doing other things. Um, so when we, you know, we we looked at and said, you know, at some point AI is going to be replacing these humans, right? Um, but we found this a little more difficult than that, right? Because we can't put more on the clinicians and if we remove the live scribe who checks those boxes and fill outs all those forms and things like that that they're doing now for the clinician.

[9:44]  Yeah.

[9:45]  Um, so we, you know, it's a work in progress. Um but again you know we it's about the people still because even though we said we are working to replace this position we also told those people we value you. We want you to stay in the organization. So apply for open positions that we have. We'll train you. We started different training programs internally so that if they're interested, they can still stay in healthcare and just move to a different position. Um, and if not, then we understand that also. But we we are one of the few places today that have human scribes.

[10:39]  And you guys been doing this for some time now. You said 10 years ago.

[10:43]  Uh, I think about 12. Yeah.

[10:45]  Wow. Ahead of the game if you ask me. Like not not a lot of organizations like yours are saying that this is what they've been doing for the last 12 years.

[10:53]  Yeah. So it's interesting cuz you know people other organizations that have gone to the AI scribe didn't have anything right. The clinicians were doing all those notes. So they're finding efficiencies and loving it where we're coming from the other side of we had a human doing much more and trying to to to have them do less and uh it's just not it's just not ready for prime time for us.

[11:21]  Yeah. Yeah. That's that's definitely always going to be a challenge, right? Trying to get away from the old and get into the new versus just new. Um that's always there's always a little delay there per se, but I'm pretty sure Garrett, you're making it happen over there. How how has your scribe model evolved? Um when you talked about is it evolving? Is it is an organization that is starting to see some of these implement uh things being implemented into the transcribe? So we are we we uh pivoted slightly to say that um if you want to keep your live scribe, we've asked the clinicians to see one more patient a day.

[12:05]  But at the same time, because they're human, right? they go on vacation, they get sick, things like that. Is we're going to give you the AIC scribe capability for you to start learning and you can use it when your human scribe is out sick or on vacation.

[12:24]  So, you still have some efficiencies, just maybe not all of it. And we believe that you know because again it's changing so quickly that soon enough those things that the live scribes are doing AI will be able to do and we'll just evolve and and you know instead of doing it by the end of this year maybe it's by the end of next year. before you're even touching AI for those that are are listening and wanting to know a little bit more what governance e evensa takes place before dig into the AI world especially organizations like yours.

[13:03]  Yeah. So we were big on um making sure that before we even started using AI that we had the governance in place, right? How do we use it ethically? Um making sure that the patients could opt out if they felt the need to do so. um what information can we use in AI and what information is off limits. Uh we made a decision that whatever solution we we use they cannot utilize our information to train their model. Um you know we don't want our patients data getting utilized in that that method or form. Um, but we felt it was important to, you know, to have the guard rails on how we're going to use it. Um, the expectations of our vendors that we utilize. Um, to make sure we're all on the same page and and um making sure that, you know, somebody doesn't go rogue and does something that, you know, really they shouldn't have for whatever reason. You know, when I sit here and I think about is how we're still using fax machines in 2025.

[14:19]  Um and and in reality, what the hell is taking its place? Nothing, right? AI could potentially maybe, who knows? But I always think it's so funny. I haven't used in a long time, but when somebody says you got to fax it, I'm like,

[14:31]  we really still have fax machines. Like, who's doing this?

[14:34]  Unfortunately, in healthcare, we do.

[14:38]  Who knows, man? It it might be changing as AI is changing the game on how uh how clients are now or patients are now being seen. I I love the model of being able to have that face to face interaction versus the doctor never even knows what you look like and spent 10 15 minutes with you. Now, um I I always go back to the story on where the lady wasn't looking at me. She definitely was not. She was just clicking away in her computer. And I'm a very talkative person. So, I was in in there and I'm like, "Hey, how's it going?" And then, oh, my wife was here. You know, do you know my wife? And she's like, "Oh, yeah." And and then so after all this, we're having a, you know, conversation, thinking she actually knows and remembers my wife. I go to the car and I says, "Oh, babe, she remembered you." And she's like, "Yeah." Um, I was like, "Yeah." And I gave her a description of the lady. She's like, "Yeah, that's not my doctor." I said, "Well," she said, "She knew you. She just lied to me." That's cuz they weren't trying to pay attention. She was so busy clicking, clacking. Um, so now to really have that one-on-one conversation, I think it would change. Bad experience for people when when you're when it's like that, you know, but I'm happy to see that Garrett, you guys have kind of been ahead of the game. Like there is some pivot you guys got to make, but and still reality, you know, are still ahead of the game. Um, and I can imagine change the just the thought process for some people that was walking through those halls.

[15:56]  Yeah, it's interesting as as we're, you know, going through this process. Um, you know, we're getting push back from the clinicians, obviously the scribes, because they're thinking that, you know, they're losing their jobs. And and, you know, the the other thing that we said was, you know, as we do this, we would only do it through attrition. We weren't going to fire anybody or lay them off. It was, you know, the position itself typically has fairly high turnover anyway. Um but you know the push back was you know people aren't going to want AI right um but it was interesting because um on social media as as word got out that we're looking to do this in the community uh we actually saw comments that they were the patients were embracing AI because as they said sometimes you know the conversation is too sensitive and I don't want a third person in the room. I just want me and my doctor, right? Um, so it was interesting where, you know, our staff is thinking the patients don't want it, but then we're hearing from the patients that actually that might be a good thing.

[17:13]  That's usually what it is, right? It's the fear always come from inside, but those on the outside are fans of it, you know? So uh that that's crazy to think because a lot of times you speak to leaders and automatically you use the word AI and it becomes a very scary thing but it's it could only be all the things that you hear from it. Everybody having this negative but when you're actually in it and you're actually utilizing AI and you realize oh my god I should have been using this tool a long time ago. This is so beneficial for me. I mean to me it makes me faster, more creative, um smarter. Like let me tell you something. I don't think I've read as much as I do now every day because Chad GBT is I'm still having to read this information, right? Yeah. I'm still having to think on what I have to prompt it. So, you're still using those brain cells on creativity and then when it gives you things back out as fast as it does. I used to have this saying, oh my god, you know, everyone wants the Amazon effect two days, but now it's like, no, everyone wants a chat DPT effect literally instantly.

[18:12]  Yeah.

[18:12]  You know, so I I uh it's crazy that people are still living in fear. I know some people think that it's new but it's been around forever you know it's now that we're kind of you utilizing the actual word artificial intelligence so it makes people scared make you think about I robot days right I don't know the movie I robot no it interesting times I love that to hear that you guys are in the space where it's how do we make things better for the organization um and make it more efficient really that's really what what it was um and you kind of been working with these vendors for some time right is that correct Well, I've I've it seems like talked to hundreds of them. Uh, you know, everyone you talk to is doing AI today, right? They have some offering. Um, but you know, it's it's amazing because the the for the same concept or use case, uh, the pricing is all over the place, right? And um you know, one use case we're looking at uh I had quotes that were almost a million dollars in difference. Um

[19:22]  Wow.

[19:23]  And you know, it's it's the same same outcome that we're looking for, right? But you know, one company feels that you know, they they're providing us value and want to partner with us. The other one I think is just, you know, it's it's magic, right? So it costs a lot.

[19:46]  A million dollars, man. That's that in itself is the fear. You tell me that

[19:49]  there's a difference of the quote, right?

[19:53]  You know, but I I think it always when you hear stuff like that, you're definitely going to see those long-term players and the short-term players because it is new. Everyone's kind of in it. And I think that's where give it a couple of years, I think you'll start to see a lot of these companies just fade away because it is the buzzword. So, everyone wants to get a piece of the pie, but is everyone doing it right? Are they following the compliance that was actually needed? HIPPA certified uh you know, in this case of dealing with patients. Um, so that's exciting. If if you could actually see something change when it comes to what you guys do and maybe AI can actually help, what does that even look like for you? So really it's it's for you know I guess my personal opinion is I'm always looking for a partner a vendor um that can do more for the organization than just for a department or a specific use. Right.

[20:51]  Because I don't want to manage 20 different AI vendors.

[20:55]  Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. that just that to me that's a nightmare. You I need AI just to manage the AI. Um you know I'd rather find a vendor that that's flexible enough to say you know I need this clinically but then I need this for the business and you know whatever. Um and they're they're kind of hard to find. A lot of them are kind of pigeonholed in what they do. Um which is unfortunate. And then the other thing you we kind of touch on the cost, right? um the quotes I'm getting, it doesn't fit my budget, right? So, I can't do some of these things. Um and we're one of the bigger players in Northern California and if we can't afford it, the smaller organizations certainly can't get the the bigger benefits for the organization, right?

[21:50]  Yeah. So I I think it would be nice if the vendors could you know think of it as more and even even healthcare is how can we partner together and pull our resources to get this AI or you know this use case done. Um, but I think the challenge there is, you know, what you want to use AI for may not be what I want to use AI for. And coming to an agreement, um, on this is the one use case that we're going to pull our resources to pay for it or whatever uh, becomes the issue

[22:31]  for people that may for leaders that may want to know the space of CIO like what does it a dayto-day look like for you, Garrett?

[22:38]  Uh, it it varies. Um I think that the constant is probably somewhere around 6 to 10 meetings a day. uh but you know trying to define strategy right near-term long-term what are we looking at that roadmap uh fighting the fires that are occurring um that balance of proactive and reactive um you know I I cover not only the IT and and the cyber security side of things. Uh but also informatics and then uh quality which is a little different because I'm not clinical. Uh but I do cover all the clinical quality.

[23:30]  You mentioned cyber security. I think some things that people may sleep on that don't really understand. I'm pretty sure you had those experiences maybe with people. I've heard some stories. Why cyber security whether small or big why is that very important in an organization?

[23:48]  Well, I mean in healthcare obviously you you have different regulations and and laws that you need to to stay up on and that's one of it right is protecting your data. Um but as as AI uh enhances uh you know and and grows at that pace uh threat actors are using it just as much to try to breach your systems um as you can find vendors that you utilize AI to keep them out. So,

[24:24]  of course, right?

[24:25]  Yeah. So, um you know, it's like whose AI is better? Uh you know, so it's important to to educate your your users and things like that. Uh again, our philosophy is um it's not punitive, right? It's it's to be uh an educational experience. Um, it will make our organization safer and what you learn here from the organization, you can take to your home life or your personal life and hopefully utilize some of those same skills. May you may not have the same protection. Um, but at least, you know, trying to identify a scam email and u maybe a malicious link or something like that that you don't click on it, right? um you recognize that maybe that's not a good idea and you just delete the email. Um

[25:18]  tell you what, I had one recently come to me and it's like every day it's waiting for me to open this. Um it's Boost Mobile. Are you familiar with Boost Mobile?

[25:26]  Yeah.

[25:27]  I'm getting an email that your Boost Mobile account is now activated and I'm like I never even had Boost Mobile. So I wanted to make sure that my account, you know, my actual checking and savings account didn't show. Nothing was, you know, created.

[25:39]  Sure. And so I'm one of those that I know a little bit. So I'll go to the email and I realize it will say like at email boost or something like that. So it's just kind of throw and it it's happening. It's happening so much now. And I can imagine AI definitely um you don't know what's true, what's not. Like as you mentioned there'll be an AI to resolve that problem as well. Yeah.

[25:59]  Um

[26:00]  you have to it's almost like

[26:03]  an AI fighting an AI at this point. This is kind of crazy when I think about it. Garrett, we're going to have two robots fighting each other at this point. Exactly. So,

[26:11]  who would have thought this is happening?

[26:14]  You know, we we utilize a product that um not only you know the fishing sending an email, right? That that uh is training but you know try to teach them what to look for things like that like you said you know the email address or something like that might be a little off. Um but our our product also can do smishing so text SMS uh fishing if you will. Um, we can create deep fake uh videos of, you know, our CEO or whatever and see if we can catch people that way.

[26:48]  Wow.

[26:49]  Um, just because you you never know, right? Um, you know, we have

[26:56]  that's good stuff.

[26:57]  Processes in place that, you know, if you call in and say whatever, you know, hey, it's Garrett. You know, I need some help. Well, we need to verify that you are Garrett because, you know, they they can copy your voice and just utilizing a few seconds, you know, they can take this this podcast and say, you know, let's let's make a a fake of me. Um,

[27:20]  yeah. I I've actually seen those videos like on TikTok and I think like I'm watching it thinking, oh my god, it looks real. And then some things you can tell just so fake. But yeah, you just never know. It sounds real. It looks real. It gets better and better every day.

[27:36]  Yeah. Well, good thing I'm not a part of that cuz I'm I'm always surprised how people can even First of all, how you have time to do that. You got to find something else better than your time, right, Garrett?

[27:45]  We're here trying to save the world. People are here just trying to ruin it.

[27:48]  Free up some time to do other things. Yeah.

[27:51]  Well, Garrett, I I really appreciate you, man. This conversation that we had um here today and um just what you've been able to do. How long have you been as organization now? I've only been here uh just under two years.

[28:05]  So, still some time to make huge improvements, but you've done a lot already while you've been there with the organization. Um looks like you're excited for what's to come as well.

[28:14]  Technology.

[28:15]  Yeah. Yeah. That's that's your world, man. Technology is your world. Plus, taking photos, don't forget taking photos is your world as well. All

[28:20]  I can. Yeah.

[28:23]  I ask you, man. If tech disappeared tomorrow, what part of technology would you fight hardest to keep? It's a good question. Well, being a photographer, I'd have to say some type of digital. Uh well, I don't even know if it could be digital at that point because the other technology without it uh you wouldn't exist much.

[28:49]  Uh so yeah, I I guess I need to rethink about this.

[28:55]  No, I love it. I I thought you would enjoy that question because it really gets you think like wait a minute there's so much tech around us that you take out one it really ruins it for a lot of you know for all

[29:05]  well it's all inter interconnected right

[29:08]  so you got a digital camera but you know if if you don't have something to store it it's

[29:15]  no Wi-Fi you're not watching TV there's no Netflix there's no you know like you take out one thing I actually had to live almost a whole week with no Wi-Fi at mouse just imagine Like, what are you supposed to do, Garrett? Like, what am I supposed to do now? And then there's barely any service in my house. I'm like, oh, this really sucks. Like, there's no social media. There's no Netflix.

[29:37]  You didn't go get a campfire in the in the living room or anything.

[29:41]  Oh my god. I have a one and fouryear-old. They They didn't know what the heck was going on here. What What do you mean? What? We're doing what? Back in the days, it was easy. Play a little Monopoly, a little Uno, take some candles out. It's just not the same anymore, man. say,

[29:56]  "Well, I appreciate you, G. G, what is your blind question for the next uh guest we have here on the Heart Hustle?"

[30:01]  Um, so I guess you know what what one tip would you give somebody to be an effective leader?

[30:10]  What's one tip? Okay, I like that. Okay, perfect. Well, Garrett, it has truly been a pleasure. We thank you for your time on what you've been able to do and give us here today. For those that are still watching, don't forget to like, subscribe, and comment. This is the only way that we get to share some of these stories of the leaders that actually bring us to the table and the gems and how you in this industry can also make those changes. Well, Garrett, it has been a pleasure. My name is E Fra. This is Garrett. We'll catch you guys on the next one later.