Detroit Parent Network's Angela Hood on Breaking the Credential Trap

[0:16]  Welcome back to the Heart and Hustle podcast with our next guest, Miss Angela. How you doing today, madam?

[0:21]  I am doing great. Thank you for having me.

[0:23]  Um, thank you for being here. You know, I say madam and I think somebody told me don't call me mad. There was a story behind. So, I'm going to say ma'am. Okay. Because, you know, I still I still haven't went back and read this madam thing, but I do want to kind of go back in time and talk about some of the things you mentioned to me when we first got on on the uh call was I was that little girl that was asking too many questions in Sunday school. Turns out that's exactly what the boardroom needed. So, can you tell us a little bit what you're doing today, Angela?

[0:47]  Um, so currently I serve as the chief of staff for the Detroit Parent Network. chief of staff and operations for Detroit Parent Network, a nonprofit in the city of Detroit that focuses on parent and parent voice. Our goal is to create parents that are champions for their children. Intrinsically, we believe that parents are the experts concerning their children. And we're doing that work now throughout the entire states around powerful parents of Michigan. How do we harness the power of parents to make collective voice regarding legislation and policy that impact our children and our families?

[1:23]  I love that. Before that, you had a history of its own. Like uh you told me this. I'm like, "Okay, great." And then you said, "But before this and then I'm also getting this. You're you're in school to get a what?

[1:33]  PhD. PhD education. My focus is higher adult learning and life higher adult and lifelong learning. I'm at the great institution Michigan State University and and learning and growing every day. So, um I shared with you that my trajectory in learning has not been conventional, right? I took time off, returned to education after raising children. Um followed up with getting, you know, several degrees around the way. Advocate of community colleges for that sole purpose and reason. It's been an integral part of my journey. So, shout out to my community college and the city. the great city of Flint, Michigan, where I hail from and reside currently.

[2:16]  I love it. And you mentioned Flint. You You don't grow up in Flint and walk away without a sense of justice, right? Or a calling to do something about it. So, you went back to Flint. You You've been Did you ever leave? Actually,

[2:27]  I did. So, I had an opportunity to live in Virginia Beach and I lived in London for four years and, you know, lived abroad and things like that, but Flynn is where I hail from. It is the pulse for me. If you can survive in Flint, you can survive anywhere.

[2:43]  Okay, so let's talk about it. How did growing up in Flint actually shape how how you kind of see the system today?

[2:48]  So, you know, Flint, much like many cities, have gone through transitions, especially when industry is rooted in one dominant uh you know, force. And so, of course, it being a GM town, our look, our claim to fame is we put the world on wheels. And that didn't begin with cars, right? It began with carriages. And so we are a a city of resilience, a city of innovation, a city that has had its challenges. Um, but a city that has always really centered community. The community school model began in the city of Flint. Many innovations come from Flint. And so, um, you know, like others that are from here, I come from a place of resilience and creativity, and nothing can stop us when we put our mind to a thing. I love that creativity. Look at the tree behind you. Come on. For those that are watching the video, look at this tree. I love it.

[3:41]  Yes. Um

[3:42]  um I will say that. So, let me situate this because I I do believe that it's important to bring all facets of yourself, your intersections into spaces. Um I'm also a local minister. I've been in in ministry for 28 years doing work in community. My focus has really been servicing families that may be in crisis or are in desperate need of resources of all kinds. So whether it's housing, food security, um emotional support, mental supports, medical supports. So I bring that to the work that I do. It very much steers and and acts as a northstar and a compass for me. Um my faith is is definitely a driving force in everything I touch.

[4:22]  I love it. And we could really talk about that because you traded corporate world success, right? Success at that to community work and advocacy. um what made you want to go down that you know path?

[4:34]  Well, I was doing this thing where I was like leading with my heart in some work, right, in local um faith-based structures and serving community there. But professionally, I was selling widgets and gizmos, potions and lotions, right? And had seen success in that for over 20 some odd years. Um a turning point for me is, you know, in in the grind of selling the things and and hitting the bottom line and making the numbers. Um both my children were launched off to college and I remember lecturing my son on the way to school about doing better in school, you know, so he could achieve better. And uh he said, "Mom, you never finished college and you did quite well, right?" And so at that point I, you know, had to walk the walk the talk.

[5:20]  And so um I went back to community college at the time. I think I was 40 years old. I had been disconnected from learning about 20ome years or whatever. and um and began to really say what are the things that I'm passionate about and it was driving efficient businesses being highly successful harnessing resources and driving production and efficiency and I bought that acumen though into the nonprofit space with the same zeal and passion knowing that if we can be more efficient in our nonprofit spaces if we can harness our resources in a way to have greater impact then we can touch more people so I'm very much interested in systems change work, right? How do we from a micro lens and create better environments so that more families can be successful in the long run? Um, but on a micro lens like I like the human touch and I like to know that what we're doing makes a different for everyday folks. Um, so that for me, that conversation with my son allowed me to pivot my focus and really take the learnings that I had experienced in the in the for-profit sector to say, how can I take experientially what I've learned,

[6:33]  take the business acumen that I'm gaining in in college settings and then harness the power of community to drive better outcomes for people. And this is to me the work that matters. It's the work that doesn't shut off at 5:00 PM. It's the work that in the grocery store or, you know, when I'm at the gas station, I'm running into folks and and I really want to be a conduit for the power of God first and foremost, but also for the power of community and connection.

[7:01]  You you said so much in that that one little, you know, situation of this conversation we're about to have. And I really want to break down. You'd mentioned learning from your son. So many people feel that he can't learn from someone younger than them, someone that hasn't lived life like them. Um but you learn from that moment, right? He he, you know, another thing you mentioned is um walking walking the walk, walking, you know,

[7:22]  yeah,

[7:23]  say whatever you're saying that you're actually doing that yourself. And I remember that I was 30 years old when you know, I'm telling my daughter, use your voice, speak up. But I didn't do that for 30 years,

[7:34]  you know. And I remember my mom something that just triggered me

[7:38]  and just kind of shut me off. And you know, I'm an adult now. I just don't have to pick up your phone call. I like that's just what it looks like now. And I remember thinking to myself, you know what? I have to have that conversation with her because I'm asking my daughter to be, you know, to use her voice and to speak up, but if I haven't done that in 30 years,

[7:55]  Yeah.

[7:55]  is she really like, you know what I'm saying? So when you said that is I had to do that the school situation. That's so funny that you say that. So, I'm gonna kind of go and I really want to talk about that because I am someone that I have made a career without college.

[8:07]  I got like two classes left to get an associates, you know, associates degree.

[8:11]  Yeah. Yeah.

[8:11]  But I' I've opened up businesses. I am a president of a foundation. I have my own company. What is And the only reason I want to finish is to when I tell my kids, you have options.

[8:23]  Dad did this and dad did this. Don't you sit here and be no less than, right? Don't be less than. What is your thoughts though on that when your son is saying, "Oh, finish college." Did your mind go into that space? Like, wait a minute, I got to let him know that you got options.

[8:36]  Yeah. And so I think that like as parents, right, we lean passionately on the lessons we've learned and we don't want our children to take the hard road to learn those lessons, right? So, let me give you the cheat code. Um, college is not the do- all beall, right? So, there's this whole conversation now. Is college even relevant? Right? Is it worth the investment? And I would say like that's a very individual question that people have to grapple with. But in talking to my ch my son who's black male coming up in this world and I'm like I want you to have options. I want you to be able to choose what doors to go through. And the reality is yes, I was making good money. I was taking care of my children. But there were some doors I could not go through because I didn't have those credentials. And so my thing was never again would a person be able to tell me you're not qualified. Could I have done the job without the college degree? Absolutely. I had the experience. I knew what to do. I was far better suited. But there was language that I didn't have because I wasn't in a formal settings in which when I showed up in the room, I needed to be able to code switch. You know, I'm quoting DVA here. Code switch in a way that they knew I knew what I was talking about. not just exponentially but academically. So let me give you the methodology. Let me give you the framework. Let me give you the context that validates my experience in these spaces and you can no longer say like

[10:08]  oh we'd love to bring you on but you just didn't meet the credentials because I got letters behind my name all day long now. Like so we're not playing with that that take that off the table. And I do think like in this whole world right now when we talk about people being qualified and the removal of DEI and all of these things, right, people of color have to be sure that we show up in a way that does not allow folks to eliminate us from the conversation or the selection process.

[10:38]  You going somewhere with this. Let me explain to you what happened here. Okay. I was this 19year-old kid working at a Subway. I spent eight years there out of high school and I wanted to do more obviously and and I did great for the company. Eight years I was running a million-dollar store, any uh new store they wanted me to open, any manager struggling, I was the guy. I'm young, 27 years old, and I wanted to do more. And I remember being overlooked time and time again, right? And um it was because I didn't have that piece of paper. So, someone that came in had no like no restaurant business experience at all. Y

[11:13]  got the job because of the piece of paper. But I knew that I ran circles around this guy.

[11:17]  Yeah.

[11:18]  Right. And it bothered me because I'm like, man, just because this man understands black and white, he don't understand people. He don't know what it looked like to get here. You know, he don't understand struggles. And then you put me in the hood, I understood that. That's why I succeeded,

[11:31]  right? I didn't need a degree to succeed in the hood. So it it yes I do believe that sometimes because we don't have to me no disrespect to you Angela this piece of paper that we often get overlooked because of of color as you mentioned. So you know it's and and you're also a woman

[11:50]  in this space makes it a little bit difficult. Do you feel like that was also something that was kind of holding you uh back in a sense?

[11:56]  Um absolutely. I think being a black woman, right, showing up in spaces, being very vocal, you know, being prone to ask hard questions, very unapologetic um in how I show up in my identity, and and very quick to disrupt a conversation when I feel as though we're not being fair or being equitable, that we're being um biased in our approach and or and and we have these subtleties in how we make decisions, right? So being willing to interrupt those in spaces, I will say that I think my academic background, experiential background allow me to have conversations that would not otherwise be tolerated, right? So that there's that. You mentioned people having ex these academic backgrounds, right? You got paper, right? You have degrees, but you don't know how to talk to folks. and you particularly don't know how to talk to folks in our communities where you're making money and receiving funding to support our communities. Yeah.

[13:00]  Right. So, I think that's critically important too to know that

[13:04]  there is a way of knowing, right, that transcends degrees, right? There are cultural competencies a lot of times that people may miss or don't know. And there are uh community competencies that are often underlooked even in how we engage one another

[13:23]  and and we're quick to study that when we go to other countries, right? I just came from Japan, right? They bow. That is their culture. There's a culture of respect on public transportation. They respect silence because that is their culture. But we will take a 10-minute ride into another community and not take the time and diligence to understand the nuances of that culture, what respect looks like, what honor looks like, how to engage folks. And I do find the same context that shows up in the educational settings when we talk about how parents are showing up in space and if their voices are not just welcome and engaged, but if they're honored and respected. If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure to guys share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works. This is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you. You you you mentioned some uh you know I I wish other people could visit other countries because I think I learned a lot as well when I went to South Africa and realized the way that they were living out there and the respect like respect for them was huge right in a class setting they told each other to be quiet I didn't have to tell nobody to be quiet

[14:44]  because hey someone's up there trying to educate us why are you talking

[14:48]  that doesn't happen here in America I've taught here adults in America that will still talk you know amongst each other when it's like what is the respect factor? Um the way that we the upbringing becomes very different for a lot of us. I love everything that you mentioned and what does it mean to to be what you needed when you were younger? I think you're in the space of of really, you know, being that's what we do. You mentioned a little bit of it doesn't um it's not work, right? No, because it's it's purpose. It's passion.

[15:15]  We're not doing this for the paycheck. You mentioned you were doing great in the corporate world. You didn't need the PhD to go make more money. you were making great money, but out of the passion, out of the purpose, you want to make sure that you have everything needed to continue to help others. Um, what does that mean to you?

[15:29]  Oh, so even when you mention like the PhD, because I had a lot of friends who were like, why would you do that? Like that's not going to pay off, especially at your age now. I might look young, but I'm 55, right? Come on now.

[15:40]  So to be going back to school and I didn't get my first associates till I was 42, my bachelor's at 44,

[15:48]  right? my masters at like 46. So for for me to continue education, some people are like at this point it's not even going to pan out. Like why would you continue to invest in that?

[15:58]  Um it's a call, right? And I do believe that there is a pursuit, right, that we have to be tuned into and aligned with that like what is the thing that you're supposed to be doing in this season and that that's very unique, right? And how are you supposed to serve in that thing? Um, but for me, part of that comes from being, like you mentioned, um, younger and learning to have my voice, learning to show up in space, learning to be a voice for those who have yet to find their own voice. And so that for me like when you show up as the person you would have needed as as a young person living in poverty, you know, with role models that didn't necessarily look like me or take me along the journey. I can't say that I saw or had in my life any black woman that was sitting in a seauite office that could say, "Okay, baby, this is how you gonna handle those racial aggressions that show

[16:57]  or this is how you're going to respond when someone calls you an angry black woman, right? Because you're demanding excellence and you won't settle or sacrifice the standard that you have personally for the standard of the organization, right? So, not having had that, um, I do a lot of mentoring. I spend time with women in church, but also at the community college and professionally because I don't want women to have to bump their heads the way I have. And I know it's not easy. Like, it can be difficult. So, you really have to find your tribe. your tribe that maintains excellence regardless of race or sex or preferences, but also like where is your tribe of folks that will remind you who you are that you can do when everybody else says you're crazy and that right you have to be able to also look in the mirror and know that like I'm not will there's just some things I'm not willing to compromise on. And so I think that is critically important especially for little girls that look like me that don't know it's possible. Um, but also for little boys, right, white, black, or or indifferent, right, to know that like there is a standard that people can reach for regardless of your identity and how you show up.

[18:11]  Yeah. And representation matters. You kind of mentioned that. I actually just had this conversation with my wife. I'm like, I don't know what a man look like, you know, like I didn't have a father at home. My mom was a single, you know, mom for most of her life. Um, and I didn't have a dad. I was adopted. So, I didn't know what that looked like. I knew what it looked like on the bad side of it.

[18:32]  Yeah.

[18:33]  Not showing up, what it did for me, like all these different things. So,

[18:37]  people just don't understand it. So, when they make the comment of the angry black woman,

[18:42]  it's really passion. Like, and it doesn't even happen to just women of color, but I've experienced something like that where it was like, "Oh, you you you know, you're angry. You're letting your emotions get to it." And I just laugh. I'm like, "Bro, it's passion." But you won't understand it, right? I'm just passionate about the work that I do. Anything. And that's the crazy. Anything that we do, I can imagine, Angela, for you,

[19:03]  you're giving it 110%.

[19:06]  You know, uh because why not? Like that's just

[19:09]  I'm full throttle.

[19:10]  Yeah. Why not? I can't do anything half ass to be quite frank.

[19:13]  We either going hard or we're not going.

[19:15]  Yeah. You're saying so many different things, man. But I want to kind of also just back to the degree. No degree is required when it comes to being a parent. Right. But parents are the expert when it comes to their kids and this is the space

[19:29]  this is that space that you're in and you mentioned that was your words. What makes Detroit parent network's approach different from any other typical parent engagement models you think? So a lot of times um you know and I'm going to talk smack here but sometimes what we see in systems right we talk about parent engagement and what we mean about parent engagement is the school will have parent night right and the school will quote unquote engage parents and but in that context it's usually a power dynamic at play. It's saying they're saying when and how and what they expect when a parent engages with that system.

[20:06]  And our model is really not engagement. It's embracement. It is create cocreating space together where power differentials are leveled, right? And so we open up our space or we'll come in, we do programming to really create a culture where it really is community based and that I don't care if the parent shows up in the bonnet in the house shoes, right? And if the parent shows up and they are angry, right? Because let's be honest, some things we should be angry about, right? Anger is not a bad thing. Like it's an emotional, if we have emotional intelligence, we can embrace all of our emotions and we can hold space and there are ways to process them. So, if a parent shows up and they are angry because they feel or perceive that either they're being disenfranchised or their child is being disenfranchised, like what parent should be calm if you feel like your child is being abused or neglected?

[21:02]  Nobody, right? So, how do we hold space for that? And so, what we're interested in doing is really raising the voice of parents, right? We do provide some training and some support especially because we're not going to the Capitol hollering on the front lawn like we're coming in with a very clear problem statement with identified solutions and we're going to legislators with ask right so we want out of school time supported. Why? Because we know when parents have a safe place for their children to go then parents can work. Early child care is critically important. Why? Because if parents in most communities, right, children aged zero to five are the most impoverished in any community, right? Those parents don't have resources oftentimes because child care is an issue. If we can put children in early learning cities, the research shows that children that start in high quality programming early, we can recalibrate some of the losses that we've had. And those children show up stronger when they emerge for kindergarten. and they're do better by the third grade with their reading and proficiencies. Right? So, there's research that goes to support some of these programs if we can standardize the level of quality and support that we provide amongst communities.

[22:16]  Do you feel like there's a story that that um really captures why this works really matters? I mean, everything that you mentioned, right, the work matters, you know, those conversations.

[22:26]  Oh, it's my life. I mean, for me, the story is me, right? Um, it is the experience I had as a child in in the city of Flint, right? Growing up impoverished. My parents divorced when I was about 12. And you know, just seeing my mom struggle. I was the oldest of three children. So, I was paternalized, meaning I had to take on a parental role with my siblings who were younger than me because my mom had to work. She had to commute for working, right? So all of the things that I'm talking about like solid out of school programming that focus on academic supports and social emotional learning, right? Because when we provide safe spaces for our kids, then our kids are not jeopardized, right? We're not leaving them alone in the afternoon subject to all of the things that happen in in our communities, right? That can be counterproductive to children being successful and safe. So that's my, you know, again, my why shows up because it's becoming the things I needed and creating the settings that I want my grandchildren to have.

[23:27]  You're saying so many things like I feel like I'm having a therapy session here with you because you say things I'm like you know what

[23:32]  that's the pastor in me. Like come on, let's talk about

[23:35]  when you said uh you know having to take care your younger siblings like how old? Like how younger? Like a year two years? Oh, so I have a brother that's three years old younger and five years younger, right?

[23:48]  So I kind of had the same experience like I couldn't play sports because I had to make sure my sister that was two years younger than me got home because she didn't want to listen at times and and I didn't think about it but a lot of people you know then I live I moved out my house and um my friends always says man you act like a dad you know and even now right but when you said that I'm like that's why

[24:07]  because I was forced to do that when I was young I had to make sure my sister did what she had to do. I had to make sure my brother was doing his duties, plus had to do my own duties, right? Like I couldn't sometimes live the life as a young kid and do things that a young kid would do because I had to damn near play dad. And no disrespect my mom. She had two jobs. There were seven kids at home, all these different things. So when you say that, it also kind of like, man, that's where that comes from. Not a bad thing, right? Because it I think to me it's been beneficial for me in my life um in the way that I am now a father. But um yeah, that is that's when you said that I'm like wow. But if I was going to probe, I would challenge that you probably don't know how to rest and play very well, right? Because

[24:46]  rest,

[24:48]  right? Because we feel guilty, right? Because we didn't learn to rest as children. Because

[24:52]  wait a minute, let me say some stuff at I don't take naps. I tell people I don't take naps because it frustrates me. If I take a nap and it's too long, I'm like, "Oh my god, what? I can't believe you know how many many minutes I lost, but I could have done 30 minutes or an hour." So it's funny you say that because I do not rest. You all right?

[25:06]  Rest is resilience though and it's revolution, right? So there is a rest like when people say what are you doing you're like oh I'm doing nothing no rest is a thing like it is necessary and you will be more effective and powerful when you rest well right so it's like but I've had to reframe this because when you're always on always caring for other people there's a guilt that comes in when you're when you have to care for yourself and our parents feel that right many parents feel like you know I got to make the ends meet I got to grind I got to do this. But how many of us know that like taking that time on the floor with your kid, right? That half an hour, that hour, whether you're coloring, you're playing Uno, whatever the thing is, like that to your child

[25:53]  is as soothing and therapeutic as going over like all of their spelling words.

[25:58]  I would say that's one thing that I do do like play. My wife is like I can never get down on the floor like you do and I sit here and I go into voices, but that was the creative side of me. There were seven kids. I was in a room with no TV, you know, so I had to get creative. Um, there was times we didn't have any, so you better get creative. So, I did have this creativity mind. So, when I talked to my daughter, like we we'll play characters all day and the voices and I see her now doing it. Um, but it's because I had to learn how to

[26:23]  play with myself, you know, in a sense, right? I had to figure out what that actually looked like. There were so many times I was just in a room and with nothing to do. So, I was drawing, I'm listening to music, I'm all these different things. So, for sure the resting, I don't know what rest is. Um, the playing. Yeah, for sure. I'm I'm a I'm a I cannot just stand still. So, I'm gonna figure something out. So, but I I'm also very intentional when I see my because the phones could be one of those things that stop you from playing.

[26:48]  Yes.

[26:49]  Sometimes I got to remember to, you know what, this is not important. Take that hour.

[26:52]  Put it down. Yeah.

[26:54]  Take that 30 minutes and play, you know, with them. It makes the complete difference. Again, I don't know what it looked like to be a father, but it makes sense to me, you know, at the end of the day

[27:04]  when a kid can see that. not know. You could put something down and give them that time. We're asking them when they're stop when they're watching TV, when they're playing, look at me.

[27:13]  Why can't we do the same thing for them, right? We're showing these people. They they're they're watching our moves. When we ask, why do they do that? Well, you should actually ask yourself, am I doing this? Like, where is this coming from? Where are they learning these things from? You know, it becomes a repeated cycle. You done broke cycles, right?

[27:29]  Yeah.

[27:29]  Because most of behavior is learned, though.

[27:31]  Yeah. 100% agree.

[27:33]  But we can always learn. That's the beauty, right? As long as we got breath in the body, we can learn to do things differently. And in this world now, there's so much information, right? To your point, like I didn't know what a dad was, but maybe you didn't see what it was cuz you were supposed to create a model that you had never seen, right? And so the model that you create for your children, right, is something that they'll see in a way which is probably more impactful than them seeing the dysfunction, right, that that you were exposed to previously because now you're intentionally creating a model in front of them.

[28:09]  Yep. Yep. I heard this and I can imagine you can agree with this, Angela. When I heard this, I'm like, I'm running with this for the rest of my life. That God will test you to provide a testimony, right? So, so when we're talking about just not having all these things, it was testing our lives to to share this testimony with your son, right? With with my own kids, with people out. You mentioned how you serve people, right? When you when we share this, it don't even got to be our story. It could be somebody else's testimony. It allows people to see I'm not alone in this world. Like, so yes, I believe that life was given to me as a as a test to me to provide this testimony to help others break cycles. one to show what fathers actually look like, but also to be representation. There's not a lot latinos in this space, right? But there's also not a lot of males in the space when we talk about mentorship. Um, and that's the reason that I really go back and do the work. It is very purpose driven. It's not so much I didn't have kids and I was already volunteering at my old high school.

[29:05]  Well, you were parenting early, right? So, caring for others is not abnormal for you, right? You were you learn to care.

[29:13]  Yeah. Yeah. This is so good. I'm loving this conversation. Um, you know, when when we think about communities don't need more funding announcements, they just need funding to actually show up.

[29:23]  We're in a space now where funding is actually being slashed left and right. Right. So, what what do you see go wrong when when we have well intentional programs? Do you see that we put programs in place and then take fundings? Like what are you seeing especially in Michigan area?

[29:39]  Yeah. So, it's it's first, let me just acknowledge it is so hard out here in these nonprofit streets right now, right? It's it is thuggish ruggish out here in these streets right now. And and I say that with a smile because what I really believe intrinsically like funding is important. Don't get me wrong. It is critically important. What I have seen with people of color is that we find a way, right? And so, and when I mean we find a way because the answer is always us.

[30:10]  It's never the funding. We need the money to do the things. But there have been times in this country where we have crowdsourced funds to create schools to educate our school, our kids because it was important even when it was illegal. Right? So, we've never been a people to wait on law to validate or justify what we're going to do for our people, for our children or for our community. Now, in the current climate, I think that the dynamic is that we've had great programs that have been funded. And because of the change in administration, you see priorities shift, you see things being defunded. I'm really concerned right now with the backlash on any program that has been targeted for um equity work, right? So, the removal of the term equity, the defunding of anything that has black or uh Latina or indigenous in the title, right, just because of the title itself, those programs have been slashed or cut. And I think that's very problematic. It is, you know, it is what they call white lash, right? It is the backlash against anything any programs that have been slated to really show equity in level fields. Um, so I'm very concerned about that. I'm curious how we will respond. But what I do know is that the power of our collective voice when we're focused on a thing, I do believe that there's been just enough prosperity to keep us apart.

[31:38]  Yeah.

[31:39]  Oh, I got my funding. Hope you get yours in this competitive space. While that's removed, what happens is we come together because we only have us

[31:48]  and we got to figure this out. So, how do we collaborate stronger? How do we rally and and align our resources to have greater impact? And that has always been our secret sauce as minorities across this nation. It is the thing that we do well. Unfortunately, it usually takes hard times to bring us to that point of community and humility to rally together instead of to be the crabs in the barrel kind of stepping on each other to get to the top.

[32:19]  Yeah. Yeah. And it's like you mentioned, it's just kind of been like that for some time, right? But we've seen I mean, we've seen our country come together in times, right? I mean, the pandemic, we've seen the country come together,

[32:30]  but it usually takes that crisis, and I hate to say that, and I think we're we're there. Like when we looked at what happened with SNAP benefits, right? And we're saying in a nation like ours,

[32:40]  are we really okay with kids being hungry? like we really like and that righteous indignation has to rise up so that people are saying, "Yeah, we're not we're not doing that. We may do a lot of things. We may sacrifice a lot of things, but our kids being hungry and homeless should never be on the table regardless because like you might argue over adult homelessness, right? People can say, "Oh, well, you might have a substance abuse problem and maybe that's your fault because of the choices you made." But when we look at children in this country, no child born, regardless of the zip code they're born in, should be laid on the altar of political angst and turmoil between parties. That should just never be acceptable.

[33:25]  Yeah. No, I definitely agree. How do you continue to challenge these systems without actually getting shut out of them? I think that's also big, especially when there's other leaders watching you and and seeing that they want to be in the space, but they don't want to get shut out of these rooms.

[33:38]  Yeah. I think you have to lean in on what we agree with, right? Commonly when I talk about we can agree that all kids should be healthy, we can agree that all kids should have food and access to learning, right? And so I think you lean in on the things that really matter where you have commonality to change a system. You have to be the cog inside the system. And this is what's hard for me, right? Because I would just assume walk away from the table because I can work in my church setting. We can we can do prevention right in the church setting but in order to bring correction you have to be a part of that system

[34:15]  and many of the folks who are in those systems get exhausted they get tired some people do get pushed out right um because it's difficult to always speak the truth to oppression

[34:27]  I love it we've been having a a pretty good conversation and people got really got to go back and take all the gems that really been giving out but really talking realistically what's happening in our own country. I actually seen an organization here in Florida, um, central Florida that, uh, was an organization around young women get shut down after 30 years because of funding. So, it's something that's happening and some people may not feel that impact, but it's happening. Snap. So many people felt that impact um, you know, throughout the country and and just because you're not experiencing it doesn't mean that it's not happening, right?

[34:56]  Yeah. And I think we have to be intentional and targeted about where we're giving individually, right? if you like even though like I'm not able to w write checks with zeros in you know six zeros on the end right as a donation but I am very intentional of the organizations that I support every month $20 here $50 there right how are we showing up with our dollar because that generosity has to come from us and if we have a swell of grassroots folks who are giving $10 right we can support the things that matter to us, but we have to rally not just our voice, we have to rally our resources to support those things.

[35:37]  I was going to say that because sometimes it's not even the dollars. Like one of the biggest things as leading the organization that I'm with today, it's like listen, if we have to bring a hundred people in the room, even if they didn't pay for a ticket, but we had we could have had the ability to bring 100 people in the room, bring them into the room because there's so many resources. There are people that know people, right? And sometimes they don't even know the mission. Sometimes they don't know the why. Sometimes they don't know the person behind the why, right? And when you get to learn that, you get to tell that story, people resonate with that. Like you mentioned, we all could agree that kids shouldn't go homelessness, you know, and when you get to speak and someone gets to see that leader and this is what we're doing and this is how we're utilizing it that you'll see so much change. So sometimes it's not, as you mentioned, it's not just the money, it's you also just showing up,

[36:20]  right, and fighting

[36:21]  being a champion, right? And really lifting up like, hey, this these folks are doing great work over here. And then when we do have an opportunity at the table to bring folks in, how do we leverage that social capital, right, to bring folks into spaces where we can contract or where we can show benevolence and where we can elevate and amplify the voice of the work that's happening. Love it. I actually just ask a question before we get into, you know, kind of like the end of the blind question, my favorite time. What What do schools get wrong about cultural parenting norms and how do we fix that? because I think I was I went to a school that was I would say majority white, right? There was some diversity there. We were all busting from the small areas around this uh you know community,

[37:08]  but I would say that I had teachers that looked at me saying I was a bad kid when life was happening at home.

[37:15]  Yeah.

[37:15]  Mention abuse. I mentioned the adoption, the feeling alone, the feeling not seen, all these different things. But then I had some some teachers that I that realized I wasn't a bad kid, but there was something deeper than that.

[37:28]  What do you got to say on on schools and and how are they getting it wrong?

[37:32]  I think for many schools, right, let me just say they the educators in those spaces are there gener generally with the best of intentions, right? Because they ain't making a lot of money usually. like they're not going in there saying, "Hey, let me harm these kids, you know, let me uh be a further burden to to the lives of these children." So, I do believe that it the intention is often pure led into those spaces. I think that educators are bogged down. They're they're, you know, over taxed and underresourced and so in that space they show up with bias and in our bias we expect things to be similar, right? So the way I work with Jimmy should work with Johnny because it work with Jimmy, right? And so I think by default there is a process with which educators show up that sometimes does not value the unique creativity of each child and that is difficult. It's difficult when you're providing instruction, but it's also difficult when you're dealing with behavior or social issues. Right. So, to your point, if I'm a kid that we slept in our car last night, right, and I'm showing up in your class and I'm halfleep or I'm I'm angry, I'm anxious, I'm agitated, but we slept in our car last night, right? As a teacher in that space, you're like, I need you to get this done and this is the timeline. Not seeing the individual because you got 20 or 25 individuals in a class. So I think a lot of times it's the way we structure these settings that don't really allow for the interaction that is responsive to the individual in these settings. So what does that look like? Sometimes it's small groups. It's having parapros. It's having um co-eing models in place that allow for some adaptability both in the instruction but also the class management.

[39:24]  Okay. All right. All right. We're getting somewhere here. Yeah. Um as we wrap this up though,

[39:29]  let me say this though before we move on. I'm like you. I was a kid who was bust to a school, right? Because I was quote unquote magnet, right? So I bust to a school that's far more diverse than the neighborhood I come from, right? And so in that setting, the teaching model was different. Like we had uh these learning centers and we could move through these learning centers at our own pace, right? So that it wasn't a sit down, listen, don't say anything kind of structure. It was a structure that was more aligned with the way I learned and the fact that I could move through material quicker because I was a kid in class that I learned really well. I always did well in school, but if I was idle, I would clown like I'd be a behavioral. I'm snickering in the back. Like all of the things. But so to your point, like not misdiagnosing the brilliance of a child. Yeah. because they don't show up or move at the pace or the pattern that you expect all of the children to.

[40:32]  Yeah. And I'm a hands-on person. Like if I can't I can't just sit there and listen, especially if they don't grasp your attention. Like we all attention wise very different. So yes, I am just like you. I I have to be moving. I hate to just be sitting still. I feel like I'm being lazy, but I'm just sitting still. Kind of going back to what we mentioned about, you know, rest. Just becomes lazy. that I I love to be that's that's how I learn. I I I learn by mistakes, right? By failing. I learn that way. I appreciate learning that way. So many people think when they fail and they they that that they suck or they're not good, but it's not. It's like what did you learn from that moment to get better the next time?

[41:10]  Yeah.

[41:10]  You know, so yeah, you definitely you hit something on the head. I mean, there's so many different things that you said throughout this that we could really spend so much time dissecting. Angela, we're gonna have to do a part two to this.

[41:18]  There's so many different things. I'm like I do want to pull on this though what you just said like so we think that like when we learn as kids the way we learn and most children are not auditory learners right they may be kinesthetic learners they need that tactile experience to learn

[41:34]  but those kids grow up and they're adults and they're in the workplace and they still need to learn and grow. But when we have these structures that say listen to me, do it this way, you know, you don't it's not experiential and you're not free to fail. Right? So then we have adults in a workplace that same same learning structure, same way of being, but I'm no longer 10. I'm 30, I'm 40 in a workplace, but I still need to unharnish my creativity. I need some autonomy to be able to make a decision. I need to be able to come back and say, "Hey, we tried this but it didn't work." And we need systems and organizations that build in an opportunity to fail even in our everyday work.

[42:19]  Like we tried a program, it didn't work, but here's what we learned and that's going to inform our next, you know, iteration of the program. So in manufacturing, they call like a continuous quality improvement cycle, but we need the same structure for people to learn and grow as adults. And that's what I studied like how do adults learn? How do adults thrive? And it's usually from experience and reflection.

[42:45]  I so I was a before I got into the left the corporate before I left the corporate world I was a facilitator for airline industry. First of all, I never thought I'd be facilitating anything, right? Uh or teaching people um especially adults realizing adults are first of all a little difficult to teach more than their kids, right? But when I was up there and I think why people really enjoyed, not to my own horn, but why people appreciated when I went up there facilitated because the different learner that I was, I would teach you the PowerPoint and I would demify it. Make it make sense is my whole thing. Just make it make sense. Don't use all these extra words because ideally people don't read past 11th grade, you know. uh you know, school level, sometimes even less than that. But I also used to always tell them, listen, if you're not getting it by me teaching it, no worries. We're going to have some hands-on time, and I'd be more than happy to walk the room

[43:32]  because I understood that sometimes this doesn't make any sense back here what I'm talking about. It's gibberish. We got to get our hands in there. As you mentioned, I got to test it out. I got to do it to realize, can I do it or not?

[43:44]  Yeah. Yeah, I see what you're saying here, but let me do it. And then I would learn that way. So, I was always that, hey, before I say, I know this is going to make I didn't I didn't create this curriculum. I'm going to try to make it make sense, but we're really going to get some hands-on practice so that we can really make it make sense, right? Like, not everyone does that. But it goes back to my experiences as well of the way that I was learning. Not everybody has that. So I do believe that sometimes the experiences of of hurt of of trauma and I'm not saying that it's a good thing but it ideally has allowed us to be the versions of we are today to then continue to help others and their and their you know their journey of overcoming adversity. Um so Angela I appreciate everything you've done and the things you continue to do. You don't have to right like you mentioned I'm I'm I'm a you know above that 50 mark. I didn't have to go get a degree. I didn't have to go back to school. But you did it because you realize it wasn't for you. It's you're not living a selfish life, right? Is that when you leave here, you know, on God's time that you leave all these things behind, the resources, all the education, all the stories that you're you're planting seeds and I can imagine you've planted seeds you didn't even know have been watered by other people.

[44:55]  Like that's just what life looks like. I nowadays I'm so mindful of the things I tell somebody because they can take that and run with it. and sometimes not what we meant and sometimes we were in the moment that we weren't ourselves and they took that.

[45:08]  We gota be very mindful. Right. So Angela I had such a good conversation but last question right here.

[45:14]  Okay.

[45:14]  Um what what has you think your your kids have taught you about leadership because there's something to learn everywhere, right? And I think there's a lot to me I'm learning patience right now. I think

[45:25]  you know but what what do you think when it comes to leader that your kids have taught you? Um, I think one of the greatest lessons I've I've got for my children is that it all matters, right? That they are always watching even when it doesn't seem like they're listening

[45:44]  and that it all matters. The failures are critically important, right? That as parents that we share our failures, that we share our learnings with our children along the way. And because not just cuz they need to know our stuff, but I think because when they do fail, they can realize that you can get back up and that failure can be turned into something beautiful. Like there can be beauty for ashes even when we get it wrong. And so, you know, that's been important for me with my children and that I have to have times when we just play like you mentioned. even with so my kids are like 37 and 35 but we go on cruises we take a three-day weekend and we just play and that is not I'm past the stage where I'm raising them they're grown they're fully formed adults but it's still important that I'm able to engage with them right in their identities as themselves not just my kids and that they get to experience me not just as their mom but as myself and that's really important because when your kids are grown old, they spend time with you because they want to.

[46:49]  Yeah.

[46:50]  When they're young, they have to.

[46:52]  Grown, they spend time with you because they want to. And it's a gift.

[46:56]  Mic drop. Uh, no. I appreciate you, Angela. Where can people find more information of what you guys are doing in Flint, Michigan? What is the website? Are you personally on LinkedIn if people want to talk to you personally?

[47:06]  Absolutely. I'm on LinkedIn, uh, Angela Hood, and the website is detroitparentnetwork.org.

[47:14]  I love it. Well, guys, my name is Ephrain. This is Angela. We'll catch you guys on episode. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and comment so you can see some more of these conversations. Angela, we thank you. Lers.

[47:23]  Thank you.