Ex-Undercover Cop Dale Sutherland: From Busting Cartels to Delivering Hope in 48 Hours

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast. Dale, I'm so excited. The the energy just before the call on what's about to happen is is so real. And just to know that you went from busting down doors to delivering bunk beds and baby formula all under 48 hours, you know what I mean? That goes to the work that you've done. Spent 29 years in narcotics. What was that moment? The single moment when you knew you just couldn't keep showing up that same way.

[0:45]  Well, I don't know if there was a single moment. I actually started in the ministry before I joined the police department. And then uh while I was on the I joined the police department just so I'd get a little bit of awareness as to how the world's works and everything and try to understand people of all different uh you know walks of life and then I I really liked it and so I did some ministry while I was the police and then we started boost others. Uh it was a very clear moment for me when we started this.

[1:17]  What was harder walking into a dangerous bust or walking away from the badge to actually serve people through uh faith? I mean, you were already doing it, but was did you find it tough?

[1:25]  Yeah, it was a big difference. Yeah, you're right. No, it was tough. It was tough. I I was a pastor uh had had asked me to to really retire and do this full-time. And uh I just felt like uh I really wanted to stay, but I I realized that um I'd given all those years to uh locking people up and uh was uh time to try to save some souls, really change some lives. D, you are one of many that have made the transition. I actually spoke to a judge and an attorney that very similar to you who says, "Man, I spend my life putting young adults away. I want to be on the other side of it." Um, you know, why do why wait for them to be in the courtroom? Let's help them before they get there.

[2:09]  You know, kind of similar to what you said. Why wait for me to go lock them up? I could help them before the police even arrives. Um, and I I truly love that, man. You wear two badges at once. You mentioned the pastor, the cop. What part of your soul felt pulled in in both directions?

[2:26]  Well, um I think you know uh we try to have the right motivation. Uh the Bible says that Paul said he was motivated by the love of people, the love of Christ, compelled him like literally like tied him up and forced him to do to to care for us. That's why you you've heard the stories you've heard all from Paul. So anyway, it's hopefully love. Uh secondly, uh vision for what I think we could do. And and what we developed here is based on almost the same system as a policeman we use. And so we were able to take that into the ministry world, in the nonprofit world, and really make a difference, I hope, for for people.

[3:06]  I was um I told you I was going to tell you something, but I said, "Let me wait till the podcast." I was actually watching your social media and and I just love um the undercover pastor, right? Watching your social media. you're doing the podcast. Uh the Monday looks like maybe I don't know what you call it, but the Monday motivations, right? You just had one.

[3:23]  Uh do you remember which one was it this past Monday that you you told?

[3:26]  No, but they post them and I can't remember back that far.

[3:30]  You don't it was just remember Monday.

[3:33]  All good. I only say that because you get into the word, right? you you talk I love how you just take your story of being um a a on the line of upright fighting crime but then you bring back the right now I'm on your website it says buying cocaine and preaching Jesus a weird combo right like if someone reads that man I just love how you incorporate everything because it makes someone like wait a minute but it's truly what you were doing man why did you go into this undercover pastor why is this not just in the nonprofit world talking about boosting others, but you're you're also really heavy on the undercover pastor. Talk to me. How did that become alive? How long have you been doing it? Why are you doing it? Well, uh we started with uh there were some articles done um when I when I u couple years before I retired, there was one particular case that I don't know why but when we closed it, it was a I I was posing as a owner of a recording studio and I kept this recording studio going for a year and we met uh over 50 defendants in there. Got to be friends with them cartel guys. We got a case on some really violent uh criminal um stickup guys bought a lot of guns. Um and with all that case when we arrested everybody it it just went all over. I mean BBC and Univision and Rolling Stone and BET and I mean it just went all over plus the local thing which I you know of course I didn't know but it was because a local reporter wrote a long story in the post and um so anyway as a result that got us into this media thing and I got a call about uh 6 years ago from a French documentary uh maker and they wanted to do a documentary in France on the story of the pastor undercover thing. And so anyway, that uh got completed. And it was during that time that my daughter and I thought about this and said, "Hey, maybe we could actually get a message out there to folks and and and help them. Uh maybe they'd listen to me more than a traditional pastor." That was kind of the thought.

[5:41]  So, is this your daughter in the videos?

[5:43]  Oh, yeah. In the in the in the podcast. Yes.

[5:46]  That's cool, man. So, listen. I'm You said you didn't remember, so I had to pull it up here. Let's go ahead and share it on the screen so you can see what was posted. Thought it was a good message, man. And you can give us a little bit more on it. Let me turn the audio up.

[5:58]  Sure.

[5:59]  I just got tired of fighting. Part of the leaving the police department when I retired was because I'm so tired of fighting with the court system, the prosecutors, drama with all the different agencies. I just got tired of fighting. You know, in my Christian walk, I also get tired of fighting. I'm fighting my flesh. I fight myself. I fight my brain. I fight temptation. I fight all that. And I get tired of it sometimes. Here's the encouragement. It's not

[6:22]  I'll stop it there because it is some some time consuming, but I I want to hear from you now live time and I think it it resonates with a lot of us.

[6:31]  What does that mean to you Dale and in your words today?

[6:35]  Sure. Uh I say two things about fighting. Number one, uh I didn't include in there that I got tired of getting beat up too. So there was you know there's that in fighting. It wasn't like I won every battle, you know, you know what I mean? So um I'd say there's two two things. One is uh about fighting is um if you know Christ then uh you can be sure uh that the fight doesn't go on forever. Heaven is on the other side and you won't be fighting there. That's one. Two is that uh uh Paul talked about fighting the good fight and and trying to um uh make sure you're in a good fight that you're in the fight that you ought to be in and and that it's worthwhile and you need to stick it out. I mean, a lot of my fights on the police department, you know, you look back now and I say, "Well, if I was me now, would I've gotten that fight, I could have probably talked my way out of it. I could have done, but when you're young, you know, you do all kinds of dumb stuff." So, anyway, is it a good fight? Fight the good fight, he said. And then the last one I'll tell you, I've said two, but I'm going to give you three was, I think, super helpful. And that is Paul was about to die. He was about to get literally he was about to get his head chopped off. And right before he did, he said a word that everybody has heard in America. You know, I fought the I fought the good fight. I finished my course. You know, he's at the end of his life. Anyway, what I thought all those years was Paul was perfect. And so, what he was saying was, I won every fight. But that isn't what he said. What he just said was, I fought. And and that's really critical for all of us as we're fighting our demons or trying to uh deal with the the guilt we feel or whatever is to turn to Christ and then fight the good fight. Um and realize you're not going to win every battle. Uh but he can you can win on the other side.

[8:20]  Yeah.

[8:21]  How's that term?

[8:22]  I love it. And I say that you learn something from every battle as well,

[8:26]  right? every battle you mentioned how you are different today because of everything all those lessons that you learned in those battles maybe you've lost

[8:34]  even those battles you won there was something to you know I I and I believe that there is a lesson in every moment of your life whether good or bad but I ask you man because it seems like you've been at this for years now where does this stem from did you grow up with mom and dad being pastor were they taking you to church like how do you get so involved man

[8:54]  yeah they were uh They were uh definitely religious and um we went to church and stuff as a kid. Didn't appeal to me. Uh and um then when I got about in when I was 19, I got um really depressed. Thought I was going to commit suicide. I was just really dep I couldn't get my head around it. And I it's like God gave me like a light went off. I I saw people and I saw them different where I um I saw them and and that they all really needed a a message uh that I believe that Christ brought that that we can uh get forgiveness of sin that we can know Christ personally. We can have a relationship with God almighty that and that goal transcended and beat me beat my depression because I realized I had a purpose. And so my purpose from then on to now is to try to tell everybody I can about that wonderful news, you know, uh kind of like uh Bono in u yeah I'm older new now. So uh Bono like with during the HIV crisis, you know, and he was so committed to subs Africa and trying to deliver him from the HIV crisis that it motivates you. takes over your life and and in that case what I feel like we have a message from Christ is is eternal and it's even better than physical illness it it solves you inside you know

[10:19]  so all these amazing things man poured into you seems like from a very young version of Dale sometimes we don't even know that it's poured into us right we

[10:29]  we go back like wait the reason that I love this or do this is because I remember mom and dad or you know whoever it was doing something and that's what I love about life is that we can really go back to a moment and almost put our finger on what was that um the mindset shift, right? Because it is all a mindset shift. Um where where was these seeds planted in my life? Sometimes either you planted them, someone else planted them in your life. Um but with all that everything that you were doing, you also decided that you would get into the nonprofit space. So you're helping people uh boost others, you're part of the boost others. There's always that one story that that um that broke your heart and made you say we've got to do something different. What was that moment for for Boost Others?

[11:09]  Well, I was um I had retired from the police department and I had seen um nonprofits, dogooders, church, uh do dumb stuff, frankly, in the same place where I was working as a policeman. They would do nice things and and they were very nice people, but they just weren't they it was laughable, but there everybody was laughing. The community was laughing, the cops were laughing, and I thought these dear people are giving their time, but they're doing the wrong thing. Uh and so I I didn't want to keep doing dumb stuff. I wanted to know how can I really help the right people? So, basically, here's what happened. We called uh we called up uh a social worker who used to be uh at my church and uh asked her just said, "Look, I know there isn't everybody needs us, but if there's ever a need that that that you have that nobody else will do, call me and we'll take care of it." And the first call was of a from for a mom, a single mom who had two disabled kids. And and one of them had to had to be picked up right at 3:00. She had to drop them off, so I had to be there, right? nobody else could do it. And she had just gotten a job. So, she was getting out of poverty. She had just gotten a job trying to make her way. And uh her car broke down. And the social worker called me and said, "Look, nobody fixes cars." Which makes sense. I understand. The government can't do everything. So, we she said, "Could you help us?" I said, "Absolutely." So, we fixed her car. She kept the job and we never got another request from her. Her life continued to get better. And so that's where we come up with this idea of boost. You know, bring people out of their crisis and help them right there. And to me, that's the best job a pastor could do, both spiritual and physical.

[12:48]  Yeah. Listen, when you told me what you did for the woman, I already thought, oh, that's where boost others comes from. It just it's a it's a play on words, but truly is what you guys are doing is boosting others up to continue to propel because we all go through down moments in our lives and sometime we just need that boost to, you know, keep it going. So, I don't know if that's what you guys were thinking, but definitely where I go with it when I hear some of these stories. Um,

[13:09]  the last time I spoke to you, you've also mentioned making arrests or you don't make arrest anymore. You actually bring hope. Uh, was there a recent moment that you actually felt the exact opposite of your days um on the force?

[13:22]  Yeah. Because what we do now is we we do the same thing. Somebody calls our uh the social workers call our let's say dispatcher, you know, just like on the police department. Uh and she sends out the the request and then we take the request and then we go deliver it, you know, and so very much like getting a call as a cop, go to deliver except we always, not always, but a lot of times we had to deliver bad news, you know what I mean? They were getting us there because it was a family fight or whatever. And so this is wonderful because I get to turn it around um and deliver really good news to people. Um we uh uh recently just uh was meeting with a young couple uh really serving and you know good people but just didn't have any funds at all. And we were able to give them u a gift a cash gift which we do a fair amount uh to help them with a with an emergency they were going through and just watching their response and everything. I mean, that's the dream is trying to be there for people. Yeah. Yeah. Just today I just got a um I just got a picture of a little girl who was um she's disabled and and and and she her wheelchair she had grown and so it was going to be several months until they outfit a new wheelchair and the mom couldn't afford like a adaptive stroller so that so basically the kid would be stuck in bed and so for $800 we got an adaptive stroller for the little girl and I just got a picture of the little girl in her chair 2 minutes before we got on this call. So, I mean, that's the kind of stuff we love to do. Police work great. I love it. No problem. But this is pretty cool.

[14:57]  Hey, real quick. If you enjoying the podcast, we first want to say thank you. And we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences. Whe that's actually supporting your your families, those patients or the entire community. We're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai. I love it, man. And I I actually I always speak to any young individual and I tell them nonprofit world is you have to look into it. Um and as actually cuz I am a president of a high school foundation, I always ask the teachers and I ask the school, are we not talking about nonprofits? like you know when people go off to college are we not talking about hey man there's nonprofit courses because I believe a lot of our our young leaders now need to get into the space and sometimes it's they get into it but maybe right after they finish the career and then they go into it like man I wish I would have done this sooner do you agree that um you you should have done this sooner you should have got into it sooner what's your thoughts on it

[16:02]  well I think if I had had this particular understanding if God had given me this idea 30 years ago I mean this this is I look I help with a lot of nonprofits. I'm I'm on the board of a couple. I'm And they're all really good. I mean, I I wouldn't be part of if they weren't. But this particular idea is so simple and and it's really surgical. Like, it's really helping people. We know we're in need and it solves a gap and it does it uh you know, right away in in Christ. So, yeah. I mean, if that would have been wonderful to have started 30 years ago. Just think of all the more people we could have helped. When you're as old as me, see, you put back the time. So, I've been uh I could have done this for 40 years now.

[16:42]  Hey, man. You're you're it's better late than never is what I say, right? So, you're doing it. The work is being done. We definitely appreciate the work that you've done on both sides because in reality, you you always fighting for the better, you know. Um so, we appreciate what you do there in that sense. So, when you talk about Boost Others, how big have you been able to scale this organization since um you know, joining? Is this something that you founded or something that you joined partners with?

[17:04]  Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was looking at the the trajectory and we started I just looked at five years ago we were at about 50 needs and last year we finished uh and those are families because what we we serve family and last year we got to uh over 800 families and our goal is this year to get to,200 families

[17:27]  and on top of that we've expanded we opened a new uh like arm of boost others in Cincinnati area with another uh family. So, we've got now two of them going. So, that's really exciting and and that's been really fun.

[17:42]  So, you got a you got a big organization, man. Something that probably was just a oneman show is is a couple individuals now, right? Is that correct?

[17:49]  Yeah, we're actually hiring people. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I'm just the chairman of the board. I I don't work I don't get a salary or work there, but we have a team and and my daughter helped me start it and she helps run it as well. She's a school teacher, so we're both doing multiple things, but this is this is kind of where we're headed.

[18:05]  I love it, man. That's how you That's how you know it's out of purpose and passion when we take role. Same thing. I'm on the nonprofit and it's it's not paid, but that doesn't mean I don't love it. Yeah.

[18:14]  I'm actually an alumni to the school, so I even love it even more because I get to pour into the next, you know,

[18:20]  little Eagles. We're Edward Eagles, so the next little eagles that go into the school, man, that are going to also experience life. my my matter of fact my niece um is graduating and I'm thinking to myself like oh my god I remember when she was a little girl and I get so nervous and scared Dale but for me I had no fear at 19 I was out in the world just living life

[18:38]  but when you went through it it becomes a little different you see things a little you know from a different perspective and understand how cruel the world can truly be right um and we know it most systems that are are also being implemented are they the best for us are they uh and we're seeing what's happening Like there's just so much fear going on right now, man. And I talk about systems, most systems actually takes weeks to help. Why did you decide it had to happen in days?

[19:05]  So ask again real quick.

[19:07]  Yeah. When we talk about systems, we we know that systems takes weeks, maybe months to actually help and put together. Why did you decide no it has to happen in days?

[19:16]  Well, I think the the urgency of the needs, you know, we just we're driven by that and those are what we deal particularly as crisis needs. So, you really can't wait. You know, you have to act. And when I heard that first story, I was like, "Whatever happens, we we got to solve this. I don't want that woman losing her job. I don't want her having more pressure. Um, let's let's help her. She's already dealing with enough." You know what I mean? And so, no, that made us think, yeah, we got to move. We we got to move.

[19:44]  And it kind of go back to your history, right? Um, dealing with crisis up close. It's showing up faster matters just as much as showing up at all. You agree?

[19:54]  Oh, yes. Speed is a big deal. Yeah, speed's a big deal. You know, on police department, they measure your how good the police department. You can look it up online of any police department, see what the response time is and your push on that cuz you know, if you're in a crisis right now, you want them to come. You know, you don't you can't wait an hour. Uh and in the same way with us, we try to measure our response time because we also deliver and most charities aren't able to deliver. So, we we're mobile just like the cops. They get a call, we go. So our dream is to get it tighter and tighter, but our response time right now is within a day we can get the need day to two days longest we can try to get the need solved. Sometimes within hours. So two things. Um it's funny you say that because I recently just an article I'm in Orlando as I mentioned and it gave the response time to Orange County where it was actually less than um surrounding areas. Right. I can't remember. I think it was like 80%. Is that a good

[20:51]  response time should be really I'm going to say this. Here's my technical term. They should be really fast. That's their that's my technical term. Uh you know, I know that I can remember over the years with them doing exposees, you know, the medics in DC because I was in Washington DC and you know, over the years it was pretty crazy and pretty disorganized. I think now they're way up. But um I don't know how tight it should be, but I I know I know I know this. Let me say this, Eric. I've had to call, right? When I'm losing a battle and you're getting uh whooped uh and you put it out on the radio, come help me, man. Seconds seem like hours, you know what I mean? Um and so we we got to be there quick, man.

[21:37]  Oh, man. I can't even imagine. But you know I I say that all this is in life we it's a learning lesson. Our jobs are learning lessons. Um relationships are learning lessons. So when you talk about speed, sense of urgency, like those are the things you picked up being on the line of duty, right? That's why I love sometimes I always tell people what's in it for you. You know, sometimes you get paid to really learn about life and people don't see it that way. They just think it's a paycheck to provide for their family. But no, man, there's learn every single day what's what's in it for me. And any job, I tell you, Dale, any job that I've ever taken, I always go with the mindset of great, I'm getting paid well, right, to provide for the family, but what's truly in it for me? What am I learning? What do I feel that they're going to educate me on? Because if I'm not being educated on anything, why am I here? But seems like you had a lot of education being on the front line that's really helped you all around become this better pastor, uh, a better nonprofit leader, just a better human in general. Do do you remember the wildest or most unexpected delivery story that still gets you choked up when you when you actually tell it?

[22:44]  Boy, there's a lot of those. Um had a mom um uh yeah, at last um there was a mom who I I just some folks a lot of times with people we deal with in crisis have not just had one crisis, they've had multiple all at the same time. And so here's what had happened. It's a cool story. um a 16-year-old girl in high school had written a letter to the local police department uh because she knew like the officer friendly in her school or whatever and she wrote out and and all the letter was about her mom and what her mom was going through. And so what had happened was they had a she had a disabled brother uh and and her and then then the mom uh like just a year earlier everything was great, credit, had their own house, married, everything good. But by the time she wrote this letter, she'd gotten cancer and it had gotten a lot worse. And as a result, her husband had left her. Uh she had uh lost her house. Um and uh this girl was writing about her mom, what a hero she was. and she asked the police bar, "Do you think you could help her?" And uh they called us um and uh we listened to the story and we went and we were able to meet them and we went over to their house and I just there was everybody was crying. The cops are crying, I'm crying, everybody's crying because this poor woman had been through so much and we were able to give her a check, help her with her immediate crisis and and try to get the you know, by this time they were living in a really marginal tough neighborhood. They were all stuffed into a little apartment and they had this disabled child and she's contemplating her health and losing her health and losing her life. And so it was it was incredibly moving uh with her response when we showed up.

[24:32]  It's cool, man. It's cool to do that type of work and it's never it's never easy, you know. Um I started my nonprofit at 22 years old and what we used to do is Thanksgiving events and then we ended up doing Christmas events. So I I would actually spend Christmas morning I would get donated gifts and I would have um the community uh nominate families and my Christmas morning I would go into these homes and a lot of the times it is you know those type of communities where it's kind of scary you know it's not your everyday walk into um and I would walk into some of these homes man and you can just see that even though they didn't have everything you can see they were still trying you know I would never forget walking into a home and it was like three or four of them in one room as you mentioned, but you can see all the alphabets just stuck on the wall, right? Like someone hand drew the alphabet. So you can still see there's some education going on and some learning there and mom is trying to do the best, but

[25:26]  it also mentally it's hard. So I ask you, while someone while you're pouring into to others, who's pouring into to Dale? Well, um, every day I I read the Bible or almost every day and I I listen to some great uh podcast to help me understand uh my relationship with God and understand I grow grow closer. And then uh this is you're going to laugh. Uh the pastor at my church is my son-in-law. Uh and uh he also he's a great preacher and I really have grown a lot. uh listen to him and honestly watching him with my daughter and they have seven kids and uh they're just the real thing and and I I gotta say that that's been if you look for somebody who's kind of like helping me that that that would be uh that would be a key part. That's for sure. And I would say the number one person who pours into me is my wife. She's we're going to be married 40 years in uh June 29th. And uh she's a much better Christian, loves the Lord more than I ever will. and and she keeps me straight, man. She she she keeps me focused.

[26:38]  Shout out to all the women that really um make sure that we stay in line with God in the word cuz my wife since day one, you know, before I was sitting here praising God for, you know, everything that has happened in my life. Um she she was like, "Man, it's God, you know, and she's praying over me and she's praying for the household." I mean there was times I remember early on relationship you know when I wasn't the best version of myself and she was like hey I the reason I stayed is cuz I I I asked God do I move on or do I stay and you know so just bringing that and now I get to also bring that into our kids and and now praying every night I didn't grow up like that you know so to have a partner like that is so crucial you are right it is not just listening to God and and having the faith and all these things, but having a strong partner um is crucial. You have a strong partner, but I'm also like, man, to know that your son-in-law, first of all, shout out to the son-in-law, right? That's a good pick from your wife. Um, good man. But I love how it's someone a little younger, right? That you could say, "Hey, it doesn't matter the age, people can still pour into us. You just got to find the right people." Um, so I'm happy that you find those around you because it is tough. It's tough the the work that you've done as a as a policeman, um as a nonprofit leader, as a pastor, there's always challenges, right? You got to kind of be on your on your uh what's the uh terminology they say? Um I don't know why it can't come to me, but you can't make any mistakes. So, they're watching in a sense, right?

[28:11]  Um I got a question though. You used to relies on your gut in the field. Now you're kind of in leveraging data, maybe AI. What's been the most surprising shift you see as a leader going from gut feelings making those kind of decisions to now making decisions based off of real life data um and things that I'm actually seeing on black and white

[28:34]  AI is the biggest change of my lifetime I think I'm trying to think if there's been anything like it and it just happened to me you know I'm old so I'm just catching on but I I just can't believe what in my opinion God um has helped people to to be able to know a little bit more. Like I think God knows all this stuff. And so little by little, if you look at the history, little by little, we get these little gifts from God, you know, and AI could be really bad. You know, there's real problems, but boy is it good when it's good. You know what I mean? And uh you know, I studied my Bible with AI. I use it to help me understand um what different authors say. Uh, and you know, I'm ADD, so I'm not likely to sit down and, you know, read for two hours or uh it's just, you know, I wish I was, but but I'm not going to do that.

[29:24]  Yeah. So, so, so I get I get my news, I get my in in like condensed really helps me a lot. And then reading the Bible, I only read anyway, the Bible's so dense and so full that you only read it in in shorter sections and then you try to meditate on it. That's really what scriptures encourage, you know, for his blessing. So anyway, yeah, I'd say AI has got to be the biggest technical thing of my lifetime. That's for sure.

[29:48]  I love it. What What kind of AI are you using? Chat GPT. Are you doing anything in the nonprofit space as well?

[29:53]  I don't know about nonprofit. I know Grock. Grock, my buddy showed me that one and Chat GBT. I I do those two uh fair amount.

[30:01]  I've heard of Grock. I haven't used uh Grock um or even looked into it. Is it similar to Chat GPT? Is that what it is?

[30:07]  Yeah, it's very similar. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to me, I don't I don't know the difference, but buddies of mine are telling me there's all these different opportunities, so I got to try some other stuff.

[30:16]  Yeah, I am uh for the last year, a little bit over a year now, Chad DBT has truly been my assistant. And I I tell everyone about it. Actually, my mechanic was here yesterday. We're trying to figure out my AC in the car cuz this is kind of the second third time. And um it's also makes me feel like, is this person doing the right? Like, there was a lot of tests there, right? So, I I see what he's doing. He's looking at the gauges. So I take a picture of the gauges and I was like, "Hey, what what are some of the issues that you're you know?" So I'm prompting chat DBT. So before I even told him what I was doing, I said, "Hey, do you use Chat DBT?" He says, "Never." I'm like, "You've never used Chat DBT? Let me show you, bro. It would save you time on thinking."

[30:53]  Very old school on the mechanic.

[30:55]  So I showed him all this and everything he was mentioning though was very accurate. So I knew I had a good mechanic first of all, but he's like, "Wow, is this free?" And I'm like, "I mean, yeah, there's a paid version. I paid for the, you know, paid version.

[31:08]  But yeah, Chanty BT, man, it it is so cool. Back to what you said about books. I'm not a reader. I got books back there, but I don't read them. However, I had received a uh book from an old colleague of mine as I was departing the corporate world and it was a thick book. I don't read. Okay, Dale. So, I went in, but I love the title and I felt, you know, what was in it for me? So, I put it in SAGPT. I said, this is the book. This is the author. Can you please break this down? And because it understood who I was because I already created my identity within the chatbt, it gave me in segments. So instead of having to read a whole book like you mentioned, I can just take the doses that mattered most to me that I needed at the moment. So yeah, I'm truly a fan. I mean, automation, all these different things and maybe let's talk offline on on maybe some things that could help out in the uh you know, nonprofit space AI wise because there is um things that could give be tech and still be compassion. Do you think that they actually mix? that you think they can mix?

[32:06]  Oh yeah, for sure. Look, the thing is just a thing. It's not it's not a human. So, it's what you what you put into it. You know, I think, you know, there's naturally some fear because it could be used for evil like the internet and so on, but

[32:19]  I would just say uh me and you don't have to um uh lean that direction. we could try to use it for me like the reading part you know I still need to read but what it helps me to do like I'm never going to read whole books that's what I always tell guys you know I read little books but something twice a year I might read a whole little book but what I do is I read sections and and and I should tell you man rejoice with even I used to feel bad like if I read a chapter and I didn't read the whole thing I'd feel terrible like oh I should have finished and I'd always look at it like ah another failure but the truth is I'm I'm now saying, man, I'm really glad I read that chapter and I can be just happy with that as reading the whole thing. And the same way with chat GBT, if it summarized it, a lot of times it can just help me read the chapter that I really need to read verse, you know, just massively or which author I need to chime in. For me, the spiritual side, you know, you have to know who to put in or else it'll send you crazy stuff, you know. Um, and so if I put in certain commentators, RC Sproul we use for instance, you put him in there and ask JBD, "What would RC Sproul say about this spiritual problem or about this Bible verse?" And boom, you know, and that way I know it's kind of like, you know, within uh guardrails, you know, and not cookie.

[33:41]  I like it, man. We could definitely talk about it for some time. Um, I would actually ask you, I would love to think your idea. If you could actually create this AI model, um, what does that look like? Think about the nonprofit space. Think about being a resource to individuals. If you can create an AI, who is it for? What would it do?

[33:57]  Boy, I'd tell you one would be to help people through crisis. You know, you got me thinking now. But I mean, that's, you know, we do immediate and then we help them with the spiritual. And of course, they have social workers and all, you know, helping them as well. But for us, it would be great to create something um that that could really help them move in America. We have I work with uh a uh ministry around the world uh called International Care Ministries that does that. They do poverty reduction and it's tremendous uh training program. They work right in the lowest slums, right in the poorest people, ultra ultra poor. But they wouldn't work right in the US because we don't have anybody who's living on like 40 cents a day. Nor are their solutions they can use in the Philippines wouldn't work for us. So anyway, it would be great to create something like that that I could actually feel like I'm giving people something to, you know, move them the next step.

[34:54]  The boost, don't forget that the boost them up is what we're going to

[34:58]  That's right.

[34:59]  U you're mentoring other leaders now, man. What do you tell someone who has the heart but still feels stuck in in fear? Cuz I believe that's what happens. People have the heart but they're stuck in fear. What are you telling these leaders?

[35:11]  I think that's a great question because what we're you know generally you would hear is well what if the person doesn't need it or what if they're not happy that I helped them or whatever. And I I would just say hey look man um you're not doing it for you know um so it doesn't matter how they respond. You know I want them to be happy. I love a grateful recipient, but they're not all grateful. So, you got to ask yourself, you know, look, get out there and whatever their response is, you did what honored God and you and you did what you thought you should, do your very best. Now, look, be educated, be caring, don't be stupid, you know, in in other words, rude or any of those things. But if you've done all that and this person generally in need, uh there's nothing to be afraid of. get out there, you know, help uh in that in that moment with what you can see, you know, and then listen to other things that they may tell you that they need, you know. So, that's funny that you say that, Dale, because I was I'm one of those that just I never understood, right? We have this talent that God has provided us with and some of us don't either we don't find it at all, some finding it later on in life. It could be the thing that people make fun of you the most. And I say that because for a very long time my talents, the gift that God gave me was my voice. And I didn't know that though. But I would talk to people and I would hear people like, "Oh my god, you gave me goosebumps." I would have people say, "How much do you charge for coaching?" Right? I'm talking to business owners. I'm talking to just people at work. I'm just pouring into them, you know, because that's just who I am. So then I got to the space. I'm like, you know what? I don't want to overwhelm people. So now I get to the space of hey is it okay if I give you some advice or is it okay and a lot of the time they're going to say yes but at least I know they said yes and I didn't just

[37:01]  spill it out cuz sometime I get upset when I done gave them the blueprint almost right they you can give someone the blueprint and they're still doing the damn wrong things

[37:09]  so I get upset so I says hey do could I give you a little bit of advice because now when they say yes it's like they ask for it right now they they they're probably more likely to actually do something with it just someone that they just wanted to talk. You know how your parents would just tell you things without you ever saying, "Yes, mom, you could tell me this." So, I I try to think in that sense, man. But I I love the way that you think is continue to do it. You know, the whether they take it in the positive or the negative, you knew that it came from the right place. Um and sometimes people may take it from I've seen that where I come from a very very positive pa space. Um and people take it like I was challenging them. But a lot of times I may ask a question for you to just think a little differently because it's all about in the mindset. It's the way that we think. It's the way that we ask ourselves questions, talk to ourselves. Um, so I love I love what you say, man. But I also want to know what does faith and action actually look like on a Thursday morning because today's Thursday when no one's actually watching? Well, I think it means uh you know, one of the first things is um there's a great verse in the Bible where uh Paul said uh look not every man on his own things but every man also on the things of others. So what I should do I would enjoy more and you would enjoy more is before I did this interviews I should have thought more about you. I should have thought more about what you needed. What was this interview for you? And and um when I do that uh it not only obeys God, but it's just God showing us unlocking a key for our happiness too. Because normally we think I got to get what I want. But the truth is when you live the way Christ created us to live, which is thinking about the other guy. I think that that drives me, you know, and listen, let's remember I I don't do this right. I mean, like when you were saying about how you have people you give advice to, they don't listen. You see them on the wrong path. And I was thinking, well, that's how God puts up with me. I mean, I'm I'm always I've heard, he tells me, and I just I'm a hardhead, you know, and I just keep doing the same dumb stuff. So, all I would say is that gives me empathy and sympathy, you know. I'm not saying I'm always that patient, but that's the goal at least.

[39:19]  You mentioned um wanting should have done a little research or a little more thinking on what is it, you know, in it for you or what was for you. I selfishly do these podcasts because I'm learning like I'm educating myself as I'm going. I'm learning from great leaders. Um but I'm also sharing resources for others that may find themselves in a imposter syndrome. Man, can I do it? Because I was just speaking to a lady a year. She um now just celebrated a year. She was in the healthc care field and she was um obviously working for a corporate. She didn't like how the health care system was. She didn't like that it was about numbers, you know, instead of spending an hour with someone and really getting to know them and their family that it was only six minutes with someone and it was a rush. It was the trauma that was being left behind. It was all these things she didn't want to be a part of.

[40:06]  So now she started her own practice where she spends 60 minutes. It's her, you know, and she gets to know families and she's not, you know, just overloaded with people. And when I hear those stories and other people hear those stories, they like, man, let me keep going. Someone put her family on the line, right? She talks about, "Man, thank God to my husband that cooks and picks up my kids when I had to make these sacrifices."

[40:28]  People don't hear those stories enough, Dale. And really, that's what I I feel like I'm winning because we're giving a platform to people like yourself, Dale, that has went through life, the judge that I mentioned. No one's ever going to hear that story if we never get them on the show and ask the questions. Because there are people right now, I actually met someone the other day. I was at the um the high school. The principal says, "Hey, can you talk to this gentleman? We're trying to get him to be um part of become the robotics teacher.

[40:56]  And the first question I asked Dale, I was like, "All right, man. What's your name? Cool. Cool. So, are you happy or or are you comfortable?" No, I say, "Are you Yeah. Are you happy or are you comfortable?" was the question I asked him. And he did. No one asked him that question. You can tell cuz he like looked and he laughed. He's like, "Man, I'm comfortable." Right? I said, "Man, comfortable that means you're just always just going to keep doing the same exact things, but you could really be working off a passion and purpose

[41:21]  and and doing something that makes you happy. So, think about it. You go from a smaller school where yes, it is very mom, dad, and very comfortable, but you can make a big difference now where a school has three, 4,000 students, and now you get to do robotics and you're talking to the next group of engineers." Like, there's something there. People don't ever see that. So when you say I should have done this and that, you did it by showing up,

[41:45]  Dale, and by giving what you've been talking about this whole time, man. So I tr truly do um appreciate it. We'll change lives by having authentic, real conversations. That's how I look at it.

[41:54]  Mhm.

[41:55]  But if someone's listening, we're almost coming to the end here. If someone's listening and they they want to help, however, they feel maybe small or they feel unsure, what's the one thing they can actually do today um that matters the most? Well, the first thing is uh you know, you got to be right to help others. Uh and and we never get right. Right. But uh this is where I say the relationship with God matters. So, as I understand the scriptures, it says uh God showed his love toward us while we were still sinners. Christ died for us. So, first thing is, you know, commit to that truth. Commit to Christ the person and watch what he can do with your life. And while you're feeling afraid and like you can't be used, God made you. Um God loves you. He made you in his own image. You're not the point though. He is. And the more you live that way uh in submission to him and under his lordship, it's it's a totally different life. So that'd be my first thing is get right yourself so that you can have, you know, Jesus says over and over again um do not fear. Do not fear. Do not fear. And and the the the way to live like that comes with freedom in him. That's why you say we used to lock people up. Now we set them free. And the truth is we set them free spiritually and try to get them broken free of all the things that cause addiction and cause uh anxiety and the mental health struggles we have and all those things. Let's let's uh let Christ just set us free. So that's one. Um two, I would say uh be encouraged. You you were made uh in the image of God. I think sometimes if there's too much um emphasis on ourselves and the problem is when you talk that way. You and me know what we're really like. So yes, I'm positive. I think you should be positive about yourself. There's no reason to. But sometimes we push too much to me. I'm just not that exciting. I can tell you all the my failures. I always think the stuff I get in trouble for I always think like man if they really knew that that's the real problem. So, I think that the the switch is this. God made us to focus on him and he's so wonderful that it's kind of like um I won't go on much longer, but it's a wonderful thought. It's like you and your wife, you know her, you love her, but if you never say it to her, the the love is not really brought together. And that's what happens. You may know God is great. You may know, but you have to say it. It's it's pushing towards him is what's going to really change your life instead of just saying I'm the greatest. I'm going to do this. I'm the best. You know, like all the ball players and all beating your chest. Just you just that's by grace, man. That's the only reason you're out there. So, let's instead look to him. And I think that is the life changing advice I would say.

[44:41]  I love it. I love it because going back to my wife, man, when I wanted to open start a nonprofit at 22 before I opened up about sexual abuse, she knew right, you know, when we got together months in, like, man, something's a little different about you, you know, especially when I was getting like I didn't even know I got as angry as I I was, you know, I was in a relationship until 20ome years old. That was my first real relationship.

[45:06]  And um I would always remember her saying, "When you get mad, you become this monster. I don't even know who you are. And I'm like to me knowing who I was, I'm like that can't be right. There's that trauma. There's that things that I wasn't dealing with. So as I wanted to start this nonprofit, I would always remember her say this and I was 20ome years old and it still resonates with me. How do you help somebody else if you haven't helped yourself?

[45:29]  Yeah.

[45:30]  Right here I am wanting to start this nonprofit to help others, but I'm broken. How the hell are you, you know? So when she So when you just mentioned that, it brought me back to that moment. It is so true. You have to be able to help yourself before you help others. And a lot of times I I see it as leaders. We always want to help. We always want to pour into people, but sometimes we're the ones that need to be poured into. And it is okay to be selfish.

[45:54]  It is okay to take time to yourself. It is okay to say no. It is okay to just sit in a room, pray. Like these are the conversations that people don't really have because they think that is not okay. And I love now that the pandemic has really brought out the word mental health more than ever because in reality that's all it is the mental mindset shift, right? When you talk about resources, the way that we change people, the way we show up and meet them where they're at,

[46:19]  what really lights is like, man, the mindset, wow, someone does care for me. Yeah.

[46:23]  Where you could be in a place, you mentioned something a little earlier where I want to take my life, but the mindset shifts and you're like, wait, I have purpose. I have passion. God has something in store for me. I got to keep going.

[46:36]  Right? So, I I love that. I just wanted to bring that up. But I'll close it. Man, you have anything to say before I put you in the blind? Question seat. Hot seat.

[46:42]  No, thank you. The only thing I would say is um you've mentioned several times uh how you grew up and stuff and I just want you to know um there's an old verse in the in the Old Testament uh Israel had had these locusts had taken all their fields. They come in and they' obliterated all their food. And then as things start to get better, God gives them a promise. He says, "I will repay to you the years the locusts have eaten." So in other words, they had lost all that money, lost all that food, lost all that. He says supernaturally, he will repay the years they had taken away. And I'd say the same way for you, you know, get your um get closer to the Lord, know the Lord, and watch what he can do with the difficulties that got you where you are. You know,

[47:28]  I love it. And and you know what, Dale, you are 100% right. And I'm living it. I'm living it every day. Every day I'm just thankful. Um, blessed to be alive. We mentioned that every day. Um, and I think that this to know that this is what I do for a living. Yeah, Dale.

[47:41]  I thank God, you know, I'm home. I got two kids, young kids, a one and a four-year-old. I remember my wife saying, "I want to be a stay at home mom, Dale. And I thought to myself, what in the world? I wasn't making any money, you know. Uh, I was I was an entrepreneur. You know what entrepreneurship looks like? It doesn't look cute, you know, especially when you're starting off." So when she told me that um I said, "Oh, okay." But I didn't know how, but God showed up. She's now been a stay home mom for four years.

[48:09]  And I'm also at home, you know, like what a blessing that God has really shown up for us in a time where we didn't know how it was going to get done,

[48:18]  right? when um when I make when I left my nineto-five job, something that I was very comfortable in and I

[48:25]  actually enjoyed

[48:26]  but knew that there was bigger purpose out there and I left.

[48:30]  Yeah.

[48:30]  With no income like it was all on faith.

[48:35]  I that was the word of the year is you got to have faith Ephra. It is part of the process, Ephra. God wouldn't put you through this, okay, if he didn't see something bigger for you. And I would have remember the it was coming to the end literally how how things could change at a drop of a dime. Um I go to my wife and I said financially we're almost tapped out. What do you want me to do? Do you want me to go get a job? I didn't know where I was going to work at to be quite frank. This is what this is all I seen. This is what I envisioned. And um and this is what I just felt was was was right, you know. And she says, "God didn't bring you this far, Ephra, to just give up on yourself." And that what that's what kept me that's what got me over that hump when I was sitting in here just feeling the weight on my shoulders. So I love what you say man and for those that are watching. It is so important that you have faith that you believe in God. I can't tell you how many times God showed up in my life when I didn't know. When I'm like how do I pay this bill or how do I overcome this? I mean when people ask me D I have friends ask me like how do you feel about your past life the sexual abuse the adoption biological mom had 10 kids biological father has eight kids all right a lot of them are still kind of in that system um repeating cycles and I say I'm grateful because God chose one of his strong ones to overcome these things to be a testimony for others and I say that right back to you Dale you are a testimony to others man the things that you had to do out in the field is now a testimony because now you get to share those stories with people that are really going through something and maybe they can't get a cop to come to their house because of XYZ or they don't want to. They're living in fear of what this cop may do.

[50:16]  You are now that middleman, man. So, I love it. I love that you this is what your life have really become and I can tell that you just you just love it, man. You just have this this fire for it, this passion, this since the first time I spoke to you, it was just exciting.

[50:29]  So, I thank you. I thank you as well.

[50:31]  Um, so let's let's talk about it. The blind question from the last leader was, "What belief do you hold today as a leader that would have shocked your 20-year-old self?" Um, uh, that I need to be quiet and listen. I' I've never done it before yet. I still haven't tried it. My wife will tell you. I talk all the time. But I uh I think that would have shocked me that I could actually benefit a lot by not taking over the room. And my buddy used to say take the air out of the room, you know, but just shut up and listen to others. One big thing was, you know, God is going to do his work and I've got to relax and not think I'm responsible for it. You know what I'm saying? And that that is a big big different approach. Instead of trying to control, oh, I'm gonna make it all, you know, no, just be quiet. Listen, the Lord is at work. You don't need to rest. You can rest.

[51:32]  I love it. And what is your blind question to the next leader we have you on the hard hustle?

[51:36]  Oh, yeah. I would say uh um how did you get here? How did you get this far?

[51:46]  How did you get here? How did you get this far?

[51:48]  Yeah.

[51:48]  Okay. I love it. I love it, man. Where can they connect with you? Where's your social media? What is a website?

[51:53]  Yeah, the the the social media is the undercover pastor and uh um and then and then the website is uh the undercover pastor as well or boost others. You can go direct to the boost others website as well. And we're at both places. And I'd love it. We appreciate any help you can give us so we can help more families in crisis.

[52:13]  Thank you so much, guys. Guys, if you guys are still watching, um, what a lovely conversation we've had with Dale. And I'm always a fan when people get to talk about faith and religion cuz it's something that we we want people to be their true selves, but we won't have true conversations, you know, um, without being judgmental to anybody. Just allowing people to truly be themselves. So, I I truly appreciate you being so open, sharing the insight that you shared, becoming a resource for others that need those resources, um, and really playing both sides, right? the the the the leader out in the field when you were part of, you know, becoming the narcotics team, but also now being a leader, a pastor out in the community to make sure that people are getting closer to God and and believing in God a lot more, especially during these times when people are living in fear. So, if you guys are one of those individuals, if you guys feel like there's some some more insight that you guys need, questions, I can imagine if you guys go to uh visit Dale again, boost others or the undercover pastor, um you guys can get some more information and connect. Make sure you guys do share, like, and comment because that's the only way that people can find out the conversations, the real conversations, and the real resources. This has been the Hard and Hustle podcast. We'll catch you guys in the next one. Later. Thank you.