High School Dropout to Mental Health CEO: Jeannine Lisitski's Cancer Survivor Story

[0:17]  Welcome back to the episode here on the Heart and Hustle podcast. My next guest, she dropped out of high school, escaped a cult, survived end stage cancer, and still rose to lead one of the most impactful mental health organizations in the country. Janine, welcome.

[0:33]  Thank you so much. I'm excited to talk with you today.

[0:36]  I am too. And I'm so excited to just get right into it. like you were on your own at 15 where most kids are just figuring out who they are and and what part of you had to grow up overnight cuz I can imagine that it wasn't easy. Uh, you know, I think it just came with the life of having to do a lot for myself and so I think even at 15 I was used to it, you know, it seemed natural. Um, and I just had a real drive to be strong and to find safety in the world. Um that was that was really a theme to to you know create safety and be strong to um to to have an impact in the world frankly. engine, I kind of like you. I wouldn't say I was on my own, but I remember 15 years old already working at, you know, having a job um having to pay for my own cell phone and um it teaches you a lot of different things, right? There are those moments while while we're young, we don't get it, but it truly um helps us fight and and when did you realize that fighting turned into purpose? Because you had to fight,

[1:48]  you know? I think it there I mean there was many small things but there was one moment in my uh life and actually it was at the point when I had um just finished cancer treatment for a whole year. I was in my late 20s and I was faced with a decision about where I was going to work and really since the end of that treatment I just felt like I was on fire that you know there were urgent things to do in the world and limited time and so I had to make a decision between uh two jobs. One of them was working as a street outreach worker going to find people who were living on the street with mental health and drug and alcohol issues, you know, really kind of marginalized from society. And I was so drawn to it one day before I made the decision going into a shopping center and I was walking through the parking lot and saw somebody homeless with all their stuff in a cart really struggling. And to me, it was a total outrage that we allow people to to languish and to literally die on our streets in this rich country, you know, that we couldn't deal with these issues. And um that was it. I was just so drawn to it. And I'll tell you, in all my career, that was the most impactful job I ever had as a street outreach worker. Why? Because literally what you realize is the relationship that you form is the basis for all healing that occurs. You know they there has to be trust for people to want to move along to to have hope to understand that there is a pathway to recovery to healing and that there are people who care and are going to help. Um so I just I can remember all the people's names. I mean, we're talking 30 years ago, but I

[3:52]  So,

[3:53]  yeah,

[3:54]  I asked you, Janine, you tell that story. Do you feel that after that near-death experience, that was a moment you knew this is why I'm still here is to really make an impact in my community and help those that are out um living this life. Yeah, I think I realized it then, but while going through the treatment because it was touch and go and they weren't sure I was going to make it. I had to have um extensive treatment. I just remember a time I was in the um bone marrow transplant unit in the hospital, you know, sequestered. Back then they didn't let anyone in for 3 months. And I was looking through a window out into the atrium of the hospital and just had a realization that it either I wasn't going to be here on this earth or if I was that I knew that God had some big purpose, you know, that he wanted done and that I would be able to do that. And so after that, I just feel like it's walking in a mission, you know, I so resonate with the work. I never ever wake up and feel like I have a job. I feel like I get to do this mission, you know, and that I'm going to make today count. There's not going to be a day that goes by that something great is not happening, you know, on behalf of the mission.

[5:13]  And I I mean, it's such a blessing actually. it turned into a blessing to have that level of I I call it like a fire, you know,

[5:23]  that came into me

[5:26]  and you continued to live your life just with this uh purposedriven mindset. Um you even walked away from law school, if I'm not mistaken, and into domestic violence shelters. What called you into the trenches instead instead of the courtroom? Yeah, that was really interesting what I learned about myself when I went cuz I always knew I wanted to fight for justice, especially for people who are oppressed. And so, um, that's why I went to law school. But in it, I realized it was very dry and devoured of the human element, the human experience. And I just did not feel that that's where I should be. At the time, I was a rape crisis volunteer counselor, advocate, volunteer in Atlantic County Women's Center. And so, when I decided not to continue in law school, they offered me a full-time job. And I started actually in a shelter. They had a domestic violence shelter, plus I did counseling on the phone for um rape and domestic violence survivors. and then ended up doing a lot of other work even co-f facilitating a men's group for people who um were abusive. I I did that with um a male partner. We did that co-f facilitation and you know just learned so much about trauma from many levels and how that impacts mental health and also how it interferes with stability with housing. Um, and just at that point I realized the importance of stable and supportive housing where needed as a foundation for people to do everything they do.

[7:05]  You know, Janine, I'm sitting here and I'm listening to you and the story from, you know, the 20s. I mean, really since the 15s to the 20s to I can only imagine every decade was something different. It was that uh that moment in your life that's roller co I always say life is like a roller coaster and if if you don't feel that roller coaster, are you really living right? But how through all these different things were you able to keep the mindset? We talked about mindset a little early before we even hit record. I think it's so crucial that when you go through you talk about some of the rape, you know, the the hotline and dealing with the rapes and all these the stories that you hear. How are you helping the mind stay clear and never um taking that story home and making it yours? You know, I in everything I do, no matter how hard, I always see the resilience and the survivorship of people. It's the human spirit. It's like a fire that you, you know, that can't be uh quenched. So, it's the resilience that is so inspiring to me. And now in the work I do with mental health partnerships, it's all about that. We take people um well, we don't take them. They come to us. they have mental health conditions and they become peer specialists where they then are taking their experience and helping others walk along the journey of recovery. So in all that I mean the hope is amazing. Do we see hard things? Yes, we see people um struggling with homelessness, not having what they need, but it's hopeful in what we do because we can see the change and you know that that support offers. Um, and I think at the at the end of the day, I have a larger philosophy of life, realizing that there's a meta story to it, you know, that kind of transcends our day-to-day what we see here. So I think philosophically and theologically my the way that I think allows uh me to continue to be very positive and optimistic even in the face of um a lot of suffering

[9:12]  and you truly through it all have led some powerhouse organizations um like the one that you you're with today, Mental Health Partnerships. Um but that transition what do you remember the transition that really kind of shook you and forced you to lead a little bit differently the way that you're leading today what was that moment maybe through different organizations learning um from other leaders a mentor

[9:35]  yeah oh my everything I can think of like every year it was something different and that's the thing when you're a leader you never stop evolving and because you have to respond to what the needs of the organization are and that is a living thing an organization and you know largely I think what I've grown in is relationship when I was a young leader I was very focused on tactical things you know like getting it done like this urgency and I don't want to say that that's left me I still have it but I um recognized the importance of relationships at all levels uh and the yeah the importance of really cultivating ing people

[10:22]  to be leaders, you know, because if you're ever going to achieve a bold mission, you need everyone in the or to be leaders. I don't care if they're a facilities person, you know, whatever they're doing, a administrative assistant or a division director. They all need to be leading.

[10:41]  I spoke to a leader yesterday. He's leading an organization where their annual revenue next year will be $720 million.

[10:49]  Wow.

[10:49]  Right. And when he took it over, I think it was like 89 million. So there was a huge increase there.

[10:55]  So of course I had to pick his brain like, "Sir, what are you doing? We all want to get there." And you know, some of the things he mentioned is when he took over the organization, he made sure that um the board members that he was bringing on were business professionals. That was one of the tips and tricks he gave me. And then the other one was exactly kind of what you said. It's partnerships, is networking, it's getting getting the story out there. Um, chamber of commerce, uh, looking at those things in your community that you can be a part of. And I I didn't think about it, you know, leading a nonprofit myself, especially taking over. I thought to myself like yeah and yeah there's a small investment to be a part of these chambers but the relationships that are really being built there um the community partners that you get to meet now when you have events you have some of these other leaders that also show up and bring their communities to these events. So I love that you said that Janine that it's something that you've kind of learned um you know and it's helped you because I'm in the space now where it's like great I do bring that that strategy and those tactical things but yes it partnership is is major you know that's how we grow together because we we can only go but so far alone so kind of what you said you know come together let's bring ideas to the table and how do we continue to scale with uh ed educating ourselves

[12:06]  absolutely and it's so true for nonprofits especially, you know, because we're trying to achieve these goals that have never been done that are, you know, very complicated. So, we need to work together to approach it in a holistic manner. and mental health partnerships like our name really embraces that partnerships on every level whether it's with other um community- based organizations with corporations or with legislators with our you know leaders in our city. We believe in um partnership at every level.

[12:47]  Hey, real quick. If you're enjoying the podcast, we first want to say thank you and we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences where that's actually supporting your your families, those patients or the entire community. We're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai. And you guys are doing great when you talk about what you guys are doing in mental health partnerships. over 8,500 people served, I believe 70% of your team with uh lived experiences, which is not just stats that you told me, it's truly the movement you guys are making. How did that build a place where hope is the default?

[13:33]  Well, I mean, one obvious answer and reason is that people see among themselves others who have walked through, you know, and have gotten through and and gotten to the other side positively. managing their their mental health conditions and they're in recovery and that gives people a lot of hope. That's what we do. We Yeah. And that's what our service really is is helping others understand journeys that have been taken and that they, you know, what can they do and providing them the tools and supports to to get into their own recovery journey. Um, and I started when we started, we were a mental health association of southeastern Pennsylvania. We had a name change, but we were started by people with lived experience who uh refused to be thrown into institutions where they were languishing and wanted to be in the community and have community supports for their mental health. And that's what we were able to achieve at Mental Health Association. Now, Mental Health Partnerships.

[14:44]  Well, when I think about um mental health partnerships, is there anything that will surprise people that you guys are doing in a good way that people may not know about?

[14:54]  Um yes, I think me many things, but let me just focus on a couple. So one is we 20 plus years ago now more than 20 years ago we pioneered the certified peer specialist role within the mental health field and medical assistance actually pays for it so that people can get a certified peer specialist. So we were responsible for that and but now we're talking about what is the career trajectory and can we work with certified peer specialists who then can get in other positions in the mental health workforce like therapist or psychiatrist even you know managers and leaders of mental health organizations. How can we support more people to make it to those roles? Because what we think is that if there's more people with lived experience providing services and leading in this field that the service is going to be better because they understand so deeply, you know, they've been there.

[16:01]  That's one thing. Another thing that we're working on that I'm really excited about because it touches more people is going to corporations and working with them to do trainings, changing their policies, but also training certified peer specialists right there in the workforce who can then support their colleagues. And so then we would support those certified peer specialists. So it really could change a culture like a corporate culture in how do we ensure that we support people with mental health conditions but also make a healthier workforce because it's going to hit the bottom line. People, you know, call out less. There's not as much turnover. There's more productivity. So I think, you know, there's definitely a business case for it and we we're going to be piloting it. We just started I love it. What is your role Janine and with uh mental health partnerships?

[16:58]  I'm president and CEO. So the seuite reports to me um and some vice presidents and directors um and yeah I have the scope of the whole organization. So it when you're a leader of the whole at times you're called to go a little bit into the trenches you know and do some work when there's gaps or when there's complex issues so that you can disentangle that and then you know at other times you're called to do higher level things be a spokesperson form relationships with donors um and be out in the community so it's a also strateic strategic planning and making sure that our business model is strong in every different program so that we're sustainable and we can continue to grow because in order to do the work we do which is very complicated um we really do need to be strong in our infrastructure and that's so I've been there now a year at mental health partnerships and I've been working intensively on all those things and we've seen amazing success um in that time. It again it produces a lot of hope inside the organization.

[18:19]  I love it. I love it. I I I love how you said there's times that we have to get back to the trenches. Um as a leader, we play all roles. You know, we we pick up where some may slack, but we also help others um find their their talents. We find u where people are are best fit, right? Okay. So, sometimes you have to kind of work alongside people to figure that out. And it looks like you've you've never you've never shied away from working the front line, right? Early on in your career, you worked a lot of the front line. I mean, picking up the phone calls, that's kind of the hardest, you know, probably line of work that someone could do is pick up those calls and hear these stories and and not get emotional, not take them. But I think you said something really something that resonated with me. You said recovery is possible for everyone even when the system gives up. Can you take us inside of a moment when you saw the truth truly unfold like that?

[19:13]  I can um something just popped in my mind. I hope it's relevant but I feel I have to tell about it is I was um working for project home for 10 years as vice president of program operations and I would always go to the programs or go out and shadow the people doing the work cuz I learned so much right and so one night I was on street outreach with the outreach team that oversees all Philadelphia's street outreach and we came into an alleyway that was outside of a shelter, a men's shelter, and f they called us there. They called us out because there the prisons had dropped off a man who must have been about 80 lbs with dying of AIDS and literally could not walk. Now, there was steps to get in the shelter. He could not get up the steps, although the prison had had tied a 2x4 to his legs in order to like shore him up. So, it was really an unbelievable sight. And at the time, I called the ambulance. The ambulance came. They had been there before and they denied the person. They came and we kind of had it out in the street. They also denied the person. So then I had to elevate it um with the city. Long story short, this person was able to get into hospice care, reunite with his family, and and when he passed, he was with his family. So is that a story of recovery? No. But it's a it's a story of healing and redemption before he went to pass. You know, that he was back with his family and that he was safe. Um, and that he experienced that love and his relationships. And

[21:07]  Janine, you continue to fight. You continue to push back on policies, systems, even power structures. Uh what's a moment you choose that you chose principal over comfort? Was was that a good example of that? And what would it what did it cost you? If you have another example,

[21:27]  I would just say like always princip you know I always choose the principal. So I mean a small examples is whatever opportunity I get to meet with legislators or to give testimony regardless of if it's tomorrow and now I have to stay up late writing a speech. You know I'm going to do it. I'm not going to lose any of those opportunities because my job is to amplify voices that have been silenced. you know, people who have been oppressed, been tossed away and thrown out in a society that's incredibly rich. And I think right now we have an example of that going on in our culture where the budget, the federal budget, they're getting ready to cut Medicaid and millions and millions of people are going to lose their health insurance. Why? So that the richest people in our country can get tax cuts. And you know, as a middle class person, that is incredibly offensive to me that my taxes are going to stay the same while they go to the rich and while I get to see more people dying on the street cuz that's what's going to happen. And so, right now, we're in a a you know, lots of advocacy at the federal level. This morning I was in a meeting with a staff person of a US senator uh because the Senate is now meeting on this budget and it's just incredibly critical that people's voices don't get lost. And in that meeting, I was able to elevate what we see at the street level and the realities of what they're talking about because, you know, they they say, "Oh, well, we have an exemption of the work requirement for people with mental health and substance abuse." But the bottom line is how are they even going to produce the paperwork if you're homeless and don't have a house? That alone will get you cut off the rules. So, I don't think the exemption is really accessible to everybody. And there's a lot of other major problems.

[23:31]  You've been fighting your whole life, Janine. Fighting your whole life. All right. I want to go back to the 15-y old girl. If you if that 15-y old girl was to see who Janine becomes today, what do you what do you think she says?

[23:45]  H I have more like advice for her than I uh than I don't I don't

[23:52]  Let's hear. Let's hear what's the advice. What's the advice? I don't know what she would say, but my advice to her would be recognize your worth, you know, right now when you're this young traumatized girl, you know,

[24:06]  and hold that out like I Yeah, I think I would have wanted to know that, but I didn't at that age. And I, you know, nobody taught me that.

[24:17]  No, not at all. I I kind of go back and I share the story is that I think at some point um our confidence was stripped away from us. Our you know and we had to learn our confidence, our worth, our value. I think we had to learn that. And even though we I think we had it. We couldn't tap into it because we didn't even know what that looked like, you know? And um but we're in spaces now that we walk with confidence and we we see people for who they are and we're uplifting. And I just think about, man, you've been fighting your whole life and here you are still fighting because you realize that life is not even about us anymore. It's about those that come after us. It's about our kids. It's about people that we meet in the streets as you mentioned, uh, that they need that second chance. And you're a believer in second chances, aren't you?

[25:03]  Absolutely. Yes.

[25:05]  Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Me, too.

[25:07]  And you know what? It's a slippery slope because as soon as you try to point and say them, those people, you're just about a hair and a breath away from it, you know, and I can say that even when I c, you know, when I was diagnosed with endstage cancer, I had just moved to the Baltimore area and I didn't have a job and no health insurance. And guess what? I was a person who if I didn't get medical assistance at that point, they would not have given me that bone marrow transplant and I wouldn't be talking to you right now. At the last minute, I got it. But, you know, it's all of it's not them. It's all of us. Like, nobody is immune from what the world can can deal out and what can occur to you.

[25:51]  I love it. I I love that what we're sharing here because so many people probably feel alone or feel like there's no there's no light at the end of the tunnel, but we're both um testimonies of that there's light at the end of the tunnel. That you might be in a dark moment today, but one, there's resources. There's resources such as um your organization. There's leaders out there that truly care to make a difference. Not so much about a paycheck. I I think uh my things I've been saying lately is that um people like yourself, you don't chase chase a paycheck, you chase purpose, you chase passion. Because let's be honest, Janine, you can be working somewhere else making a lot more money, but it's not about the money for you. Never has been, right? It was always about how do you uplift others? And I I really love that you're you're in that space. I ask you, we talk about the cuts that are happening at the government level. I see that uh organizations and not just only nonprofits that you mentioned the health care. I mean, people personally that are scared to go to a doctor because they don't know if they're going to be taken away from their families, right? like that's where we're living at in this time of day. Um, but when it comes to the sense of the nonprofit where we are having to cut maybe programs or cut people, do are are we implementing AI to try to fill that void? Is your organization looking towards that?

[27:10]  And if so, what kind of AI tools?

[27:13]  Yeah. And actually, that's something we're working on now. We just finished a strategic technology plan. And so one of the things we're focused on is what is our you know our AI protocol? What how do we want to utilize it? Um and so but I know that the leadership team uses it in various ways to you know have more speed and in the clunky things we have to do especially analysis and um

[27:41]  that type of planning. It has saved a lot of time for us but we're going to be doing more. We just need to lay it out. And as I said, there was a lot of infrastructure things that I've been working on since I came.

[27:55]  No, I I believe it. I believe that um even in the healthcare when I talked about healthcare, you know, pandemic happened, we lost so many people in the healthcare industry and I believe and I'm hearing from other leaders is that people had to do the things they didn't want to do and were not happy about. So, they found other careers maybe doing their own things and and and it's that admin work. is that busy work that we don't love doing. We love to help people and we get taken away from that. It doesn't become enjoying anymore, right? So, we can find tools that help us um save time as you mentioned, save time doing the little things that just doesn't really make sense to us because we want to be on the front line like yeah, let's implement those things. And how do we even implement AI to continue to communicate with our communities? Like there's so many different tools as you mentioned is having to find that right partner, that right tool. And but I love that you guys are in it thinking strategic because there is a lot of organizations that are already kind of rolling it out already implemented these things and um AI to me is is almost like the social media you know when people say that social when I remember the first thing MySpace you remember MySpace days now we're on Facebook now we're on Instagram now we're on Tik Tok like it's really evolved I mean the computer has evolved and um thinking that AI has truly been here for some time as in text predictive you know predictions but we haven't called it AI So, I love that you guys are thinking about how do we continue to move with the times um and and help us become better versions of ourselves, but also help us do what we love more and let the AI automation take care of the things that we can just automate in a sense, right?

[29:29]  Absolutely. I think you did you've done a good job of that just from my little interface with how you work and I I really liked that.

[29:38]  Oh man. Yeah, 100%. I you know what's crazy is that three years ago I had a friend tell me about chat GPT and like probably everybody else I'm like oh that's cool.

[29:46]  Never really used it. I would tell people about it but never use it myself and within the last I would say year and a half I mean it becomes my personal assistant.

[29:54]  Yeah.

[29:54]  Um and you know working on automation and these are the things I didn't even never knew but I had to learn you know and I see now I see the benefit of it and the time that is being saved. So I always love to also spread that to the nonprofits. If someone is listening right now, Janine, um, but they're barely holding on, what would you want them to hear from you today?

[30:13]  You know, something that you said earlier, you said life is like a roller coaster. Every day is different. So, first and foremost, recognize that tomorrow is a new day. You're not going to feel the way you feel today. You'll feel differently. And I really want people to hear that who might be considering suicide, taking their own life, you know, to realize it's not the end of your story. And there are many, many people here to listen to you. One, most importantly, you can call 988. It's a crisis line that is always answered and people will work with you. At mental health partnerships, if you go to our website, which is mhph.org, or you can get a chat line and you can literally chat with somebody right away. Um, you can also call in to get support and we'll be able to route you to the a program that could help you. We have certified peer specialists that could work with people, case managers. We have recovery learning centers where people can just drop in and immediately get support. So there, you know, it's it's an easy entry. It's not like trying to sign up to get a psychiatrist, which could take six months. You know, we have something for you today, and we can walk with you through your journey.

[31:34]  Janine, I've truly enjoyed this conversation, and um it's time that we put you in the hot seat. We have that blind question from the last leader that we want to ask you.

[31:41]  Hey, great.

[31:42]  Thank you so much for all the insight. Thank you for what you guys are doing at the organization. And I know at you at the helm that there's so much growth that's about to happen because of who you are and what you bring to the table. So, first of all, I just want to say thank you for your time.

[31:53]  Thank you.

[31:54]  Um, yeah, of course. The blind question for our last leader is, what's one core belief that's been true since the beginning and still guide you now even when no one's watching?

[32:06]  The core belief is the dignity and the worth and the value, the sacredness of every individual.

[32:17]  So good. So good. So easy. That just came to you so easy. Janine, what is your blind question to the next leader?

[32:23]  My blind question is um what advice would you give the next generation of leaders?

[32:33]  Okay.

[32:33]  I think that's really important especially for the nonprofits because um we need to make sure we're developing leaders. It's really easy to lose leadership to corporations where they can make more money, you know. So, how are we cultivating that next generation?

[32:51]  I'll tell you what. Um, I lead a nonprofit that's attached to a high school and I always ask, are we talking about this at the high school level? We talk about going to be a doctor, a nurse, but are we talking about becoming a nonprofit leader where you could truly make big impact? Because what we what we mentioned is not always chasing the big paycheck because even when people make all the money in the world, they're still not happy. Yeah. Yeah.

[33:13]  But I tell you what, there's judges, there's people like yourself, um, that have left different careers to get into the nonprofit space and would always share how happy you are because you every day you're really making a difference in this world. And um, I don't know that we're speaking at it at the level we should be, which is our high schools and as our middle schools, is how do we continue to share that message at that level? So that's just my thoughts as I continue to work in in the schools because I didn't know a nonprofit existed and what that it does. But now that I'm in it, I'm like, man, this is so cool.

[33:46]  Yeah, that's important for us to get the message to young people. And I think along with it is a message of, you know, financially, how do they set their life up if they want to do it? Because, you know,

[33:57]  true,

[33:58]  we're living in an expensive world.

[34:01]  Yeah, we are. We got to work two, three jobs.

[34:03]  I fear that we're going to have to pay to take a breath. I mean, when does that, you know?

[34:08]  Well, Denine, it's truly been a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast. Um, I can't wait to do this again because I'm pretty sure there's so much that's happening in the next couple of years and and how you continue to scale up this organization. But, thank you so much, guys. If you're still watching, make sure that you guys do like, comment, and subscribe. But Janine, can you tell us, are you on social, what website? How can we connect with the organization? Yes, we are on um Facebook, we're on Instagram, we're on LinkedIn, we're on YouTube. Um and you could go to mhph.org for our website and you'll find everything there.

[34:44]  Well, I appreciate it. Guys, if you guys are still watching, don't forget to tag another leader that could really take all the insight that we've dropped here today. Miss Janine's always dropping gems. We thank her. Don't forget to subscribe. This has been Erain. We'll catch you guys in the next one.