How Nonprofits Can Use Business Strategies to Change the World

[0:00]  what's it mean to be thriving what's it mean to be uh if you will to to be um uh to feel like you're involved to feel like you're contributing uh what's that mean to you because those are the ways that we're measure than the progress that we're making and those are the ways that I believe uh that you can reach the hearts and soul of people that uh you work with in order to make that happen one of the reasons that we do what we do in working with people with disabilities because we want people with disabilities to be able to come together but not just come together in a sheltered workshop somewhere but to come together in the community where they can see uh other people like themselves but they can see uh they they can make other friendships

[0:49]  they can get to know other people uh and they can add a a color and vibrancy to their life but they can't if they just shelter themselves inside of a home welcome to the heart and hustle podcast Chris dude I can't believe that we're going to be able to talk about you know your unique perspectives in leading a amazing nonprofit organization with an amazing Mission as well so once again thank you so much for joining me I really appreciate it it's a pleasure to be here thanks for the invitation so Chris I have a question for you how

[1:37]  would Chris be described or how would you describe yourself if work wasn't a part of the equation who am I sitting across the digital table from uh you're sitting across the table from uh a person who has a a good heart who's passionate who uh enjoys uh people always looks for the best in people I think uh I like to look for the best but I appreciate the differences so much uh I've you know when I've grown up I've grown up actually on a for about four or five years on an Indian Reservation uh and then uh went from there to kind of the Midwest and lived in the heart Lane if you will in the middle of a bunch of cornfields uh and so this was a uh it

[2:27]  was a great opportunity for me I think is uh I aged uh to get real comfortable with a variety of different people and and I think that's made my life really blessed let's rewind a little bit and talk about those early days on a reservation what was that like well it's uh I actually is my mother who uh who taught on the reservation uh and she was a first grade teacher I was in third grade at the time so we would uh come every morning I'd help her get get our classroom set up uh and then I think the uh first uh uh first girlfriend I ever had was named Susie birdtale and she was uh uh she was wonderful I think the uh the people that I got to know uh then

[3:16]  and over the years it was great to be exposed to another culture so early in in my life as well uh and understand because I was one of the few Caucasians who were there and so uh to have that understanding of what it's like to be on the other side uh to feel a little more like the minority but it really gave me I think a great opportunity to uh to as we were just talking about to understand differences and to appreciate those differences in people that you meet and that's helped me throughout my career and so whether it's uh coming out of high school going to the military whether it's in college or uh at the workplace uh being able to talk and hopefully identify with so many

[4:02]  different people thinking about where we came from just as a society in general when I think of America and the the ideas that I grew up on we were a Melting Pot right we were a mixing of cultures I grew up in a biracial family my father was black my mother was white and I saw how the different elements of our cultures Blended together but me also being light-skinned I was somebody who could fit in in multiple locations but depending on the group of people I was with I was often I didn't look like everybody else so I EMP EMP for you and saying we have to be able to exercise the perspective of being an outsider and that entire perspective comes with a different awareness if that makes sense and being able to accept others but also opening up your heart enough to be willing to I would say entertain different customs and different cultures and seeing how you fit into those things

[4:50]  I feel like we've lost a little bit of that in society today I I agree with you I think that part of it as well as uh when I came to work in the uh disability Community uh one of the things I thought to myself before I came on was uh you know if you're confined to a wheelchair like my uncle was uh what must that be like and there was you know you you hear about and you see people that kind of imitate that by saying okay I'm gonna I'm going to take this wheelchair and stay in it and go for a mile uh well that's a great way of trying to understand what it's like um uh but what I really hope to embrace and I think this is part of who I am as a person is accept the differences without imitating

[5:39]  uh what is it that you can what what can you learn from uh appreciate those differences appreciate the abilities before you even talk about disabilities uh and I think that's one of the things that's helped to prepare me for the role that I have now let's talk about at work and the mission of at work so give everybody an understanding of the landscape of the work that you're doing and then I've got some follow-up questions as well uh at work is uh located in Washington State uh we've been around for about 60 years uh the in fact the organization was founded on uh the same year I was born so you know it's kind of like it was supposed to be the prior CEO's name was Chris my name's Chris so uh it just uh all seemed to uh be uh destined in a sense that I would

[6:30]  come here but I think the uh the thing that I uh love about at work is truly it's Mission because uh you know when we talk about the vision of the company the mission of uh the company we're really talking about helping people of disabilities so that overall they can be involved they can be contributing they can be thriving within their communities uh and that means uh a way of doing it is we focus on three different areas one is we help people with disabilities to find employment uh through our job coaches we work with them help them to put resumés together help them uh by matching a job maybe to their skills their abilities their interest uh and then in addition to

[7:17]  doing that uh we have a transition program where we work with high school students uh and as those high school students get ready to graduate from a high school we want to work with them so that we can help them uh find a job and they go right from school into the job place if that's they're choosing uh and finally we've uh worked with a community inclusion and what that really means is that uh you know there is certainly of a day in the disability Community where uh people just stayed at home or they were placed in institutions and they weren't Out Among the community and certainly we think anyway that the best thing to do is to uh is to integrate people together uh and enjoy the richness of what that

[8:07]  is like uh versus you know stay staying at home and so uh it's uh we will do everything from uh gardening if you will to different uh uh different activities uh you know go to the grocery store just different types of uh Community involvement activities and that's at work I mean it's an amazing and I don't think it's easy enough for it to communicate how everyone has an opportunity to be impacted by a loved one with a disability now I'm going to tell a personal story that I've never shared on the podcast before but I have a younger cousin named William who unfortunately at the age of 15 years old got into a altercation with a 12-year-old at a gas station in Tacoma

[8:54]  Washington unfortunately that altercation led to the 12-year-old p in out a handgun and shooting at my cousin William who was struck in the lower back and has been paralyzed from the waist down ever since he was 15 years old a freak accident but impacted the trajectory of his life and my family's life in ways that I can't even describe and I know that you had a family experience as well with somebody who from the state of Indiana was Mr basketball would you mind sharing that story with us as well yeah first of all I'm sorry for that uh but thank you so much for sharing it it's uh pulls in my heart because it's why I do the things that I do as well and why this organization exists uh my uh the the way I've ended up here if you will is uh my uncle uh Uncle Mark was literally Mr

[9:44]  basketball of Indiana back in the 1960s uh and I so admired him uh he was very definitely a father figure for me and when I was back there not very long ago uh a few years back uh with my wife wife we went and visited him and as we were Le uh leaving uh on our way to the airport uh my wife said to me uh did you notice that he just said see you later and I said well he always say see you later uh but she who's uh very observant and intuitive said uh yeah uh but he uh he didn't uh um I I'm sorry that that story Keenan it was uh what he

[10:35]  the way that yeah exactly the way that I did he said take care of yourself Chris right yes take care of yourself Chris and he uh he didn't uh say see you later and as a result of that it kind of uh stuck on my mind and and I I was thinking through it but I should have acted more quickly because a few days later uh I get a call uh indicating that he had committed suicide because he just couldn't really uh take it any longer after being confined to a wheelchair uh he wasn't able to do the things that he used to do and I think he started doubting his own worth and based on that uh that led me to start looking at my own life uh and what is it that I could do to work with people to help them uh

[11:28]  recognize understand and that they have value and there are people out there that are you know would certainly uh miss them and uh want to be there for that cry of help and uh do a much better job of uh of reaching out more quickly than at that time I did but there's nothing that I know it's easy to open up our hearts and say what could I have done in that situation you know and I feel like that's very much a human response but it worri wores me that we kind of live in a society today where different is looked down upon right depending on your situations and the things you go through in life I think we are by far in a time in history where the biggest problem in our society is not another outbreak of a pandemic but

[12:15]  it is the epidemic of loneliness and isolation when we don't have our sense of community our sense of togetherness and the community that we can lean on it's very easy to find that we look at ourselves as not having worth when some just a simple conversation with somebody else who truly cares about us is that mirror that we need to see our true worth in if that makes sense without a doubt and I think that uh hits very closely to uh at work because that's one of the reasons that we do what we do in working with people with disabilities because we want people with disabilities to be able to come together but not just come together in a sheltered workshop somewhere but to come together in the community where they can see uh other people like themselves but they can see uh they can make other friendships they

[13:04]  can get to know other people uh and they can add a uh color and vibrancy to their life but they can't if they just shelter themselves inside of a home we are a beautiful painting if you will and each one of The Strokes in our lives adds to that Masterpiece one of the things that truly inspired me Chris about our last conversation is you talked about your history in the for-profit world and when the opportunity came up at atwork you said I feel like all of the other experiences that I've had have been leading me towards this let's talk a little bit about that uh that's so true and that's what I encourage uh others to do as well is that uh so many people I think went through the pandemic and came out of it uh wondering like all of us should what

[13:51]  is it I want to do with this one precious life and and uh for me I had a long history of working for for-profit businesses uh and when I stepped back shortly after my uh my uncle passed away uh I started thinking what is it that I want to do uh and as I went through my resume and was looking at different uh opportunities uh there was a lot that was a natural uh jump if you will from the position that I was working in before uh to maybe doing that same type of work at a at another company but what I noticed as I was starting at the top of my resume and looking at you know here are my abilities here's the things that uh I've done here are all my jobs

[14:41]  if you will the type of roles I've had here's my professional education and then at the very bottom of the resume is here are the nonprofits I work for uh predominantly as a board memb a volunteer uh and as I started thinking about that I started realizing that those for me were some of the best experiences that I've ever had it's where I felt uh like I I know I had a mentor in mine once that said uh the best thing that you can have is to wake up in the morning get out of bed knowing that you're going to fun not going to work well I have one better than that that applies to me anyway and that is I'm going to a cause I'm not going to work this is why I'm doing what I'm doing uh and so I I literally flipped my

[15:32]  resume upside down and started with what were was it about those nonprofits that gave me that Joy uh and I think happen stance it started looking uh and within two or three days I saw uh an ad uh for CEO position at at work uh and I started looking at the cause uh and feeling like that's exactly what I was looking for I wanted to be at a place that uh where you know no one else would necessarily have to experience if I could help it what I experienced with my Uncle Mark passing away and I just wanted to be uh able to uh to do some good and apply the things that I've done in the past and I

[16:19]  think that's what Keenan had really helped was to say hey I have the strategy part I have the leadership part I have the operational part in my backgrounds of all the things that I've done and all those things are transferable and more into working for this nonprofit I mean I feel like it's a beautiful journey to think about some of the experiences that we have along the way often when I come across hardship or I've come across tough times in my life it's very easy for me to ask why is this happening to me or what am I going to be able to gain from this experience but later in life when we're farther down the journey we start realizing that the strategy work that I did at the time that maybe wasn't the most fulfilling now gives me the ability to show up as my best self for this opportunity and I

[17:08]  think that that perspective is something that we need a little bit more of in this world of instant gratification it's very easy to understand like why am I doing this for what result but often and you're a beautiful Testament to it some of the experiences that we go through lead us down a path that is super fulfilling did you find joy in any other areas of your early professional career that you've had now oh absolutely I think uh uh I always try to take something away from uh the roles I've been in and and you know I went right from high school into the military and uh so I had a very structured childhood uh had to polish my shoes every morning and uh every evening uh and uh you know keep my room meat tidy all the different things that then became hey this is so

[17:57]  easy when I went in the military because I I I can remember the drill instructor in front of me just so close that I could feel actually uh the U uh the spit coming out of out of his mouth when he said uh uh you know what what are you doing here and I said I feel like I'm at home sir and he said at home he said and then he just looked at me right in the eye and he said you're going to be the uh you know the uh the biggest screw up this military have ever had uh or you're going to be the uh uh the best soldier that we've ever had uh and I can't speak to that but I can speak to the fact that

[18:45]  I had a a great uh time in the military in terms of growing learning uh and uh really branching out from you know those years where you're growing up and I went from that to finish my four years of uh college for my uh bachelor's and two years I did it in two years because I was really again motivated to to get through it came out had that leadership experience and I started uh uh interviewing ended up at a uh a large Insurance uh company uh and as as I'm thinking about my background and answering the questions I find out that yes I got offered the J job the reason I was off of the job is they never saw anyone's shoes as polished as my shoes

[19:34]  were and and so it just goes to show you that you know you you can uh uh you can prepare you can do so many things uh but sometimes it's that thing that you never thought of but it's essentially who you are and so you're taking that as I did to uh other roles so I I started in insurance companies and did underwriting which really looking at eligibility for people uh I was uh worked my way up through that to kind of a director of underwriting then I had the opportunity to move over to lead a life insurance company so uh I did that and then moved over to uh direct all the sales for another insurance company and and it turned out really well plus uh uh I

[20:23]  became very very interested in customer experience uh and went from that background to Delta Dental uh and I became the first director of they call a patient rather a customer but I can argue that but the director of uh patient experience for any of the Delta Dental uh companies and and then finally I kind of uh took a s side step and decided to uh work for a uh a startup I think I was employee number four or so uh and uh that gave me a lot of experience with regards to taking some of the things I've done around innovation in the past into the startup and then shortly around that uh after about a year of that uh that's when uh

[21:11]  you know i' my uncle had uh passed away and and I lost both my parents unfortunately uh during covid uh so it was a uh it was really a time of self-reflection which is just one thing I would say is that you know I had another Mentor that told me one you know people will uh often ask uh the universe you know why is this happening what can I learn from this but then they don't stop and be quiet and listen they keep asking those questions but if you have that pause if you just stop and you listen uh and uh you know have have faith that that answer is going to come uh then uh that's what I did I of quiet

[21:59]  pensive moments uh and all of all of a sudden things started falling into place as it normally does right so true all good things take time um one of my father sayings when I was growing up he said this two shall pass you know and everything happens for a reason those are the two statements that I remember from my childhood everything happens for a reason was coming from my mom and this two shall pass for my dad and those two statements have helped me get through a lot of tough times because very much like your analogy um you know when we ask the universe or God or whatever you want to yes ask like I wish I was more patient why can't you make me more patient God you're not given patience as a trait but you're given opportunities to practice that patience and given opportunities to practice what you ask for and it seems like your entire career

[22:48]  has been honing you for this amazing opportunity but I know that the landscape of nonprofits is not easy especially when you're coming from a business like Delta dentl right that's amazing acquisition large footprint lots of money coming in cash flow what are some of the biggest challenges that you've noticed with the nonprofit world today well certainly there's a lot of challenges that are similar to for-profits uh but I think with a nonprofit the thing that is always hanging over your head is funding uh how are you going to pay the bills uh and for at work for a lot of organizations that do the same typee of work that we do uh it's being able to uh cover the expenses of working with uh people with

[23:37]  disabilities and so uh I know from when we look at things that we get as it relates to Grants from the state from uh federal government uh it covers about 70% of the cost know we did uh the state actually Washington state did a rate study a couple years back uh and uh we are uh probably about uh $24 an hour less than what that rate study said which uh which is one of those things that again there's only so much money I get that uh and there's only so much tax burden you can put on people as well I get that uh but it's a little like you're trying to uh climb up uh to a summit uh and you know someone uh

[24:30]  throws you down a 70 foot rope but it's 100 foot high so what are you going to do with that other 30 ft how are you going to get that and so one of the difficulties with on a nonprofit is we have a couple four profit Enterprises to try to make up that other 30 feet if you will or the 30% that you have to pay uh and need to pay in order to do the things that we want that are related to our mission but that's not a uh uh that that's not an easy Endeavor because like any for-profit Enterprise you have the challenges then of making that profit so a CEO uh you're you have to be thinking about how we doing on the for-profit and how are we doing for the nonprofit because one helps to feed the

[25:18]  other and so the same thing is true of if you will all of our accounting uh and finance you know when you're with a for-profit company here's the you know what you should do from bookkeeping standpoint or for a record standpoint uh but at this organization you got to know it from a for-profit side as well as a nonprofit side so it's it's very very challenging I want to level set this for the audience so what we're talking about here is you at work have an amazing mission where from the state you guys are a nonprofit you guys get about 70% of necessary cost filled or fulfilled by the government so you're about 70% 30% deficit so what you're saying is your organization has had to stand up for profit organizations to be able to fill

[26:07]  that 30% what business do can you point us towards that you guys have been able to stand up and manage that is helping fill some of the gaps at at work well we have a very large landscaping business that we have uh which is uh one of our subsidiaries is Ace AC which is atw work commercial and Rises uh and so we do uh Landscaping uh uh all year long uh uh from uh the top of the state to the bottom of the state and really uh all along this part of uh Western Washington uh we have uh contracts uh with uh government agencies to do their Landscaping contracts with

[26:56]  businesses uh wherever we Rec confine Landscaping work we do that in addition to that Kenan we have a number of other things that we do that ranges from uh doing Imaging for companies uh to another service that works with uh Parks and Wildlife uh for looking at salmon hatcheries uh and uh helping to collect samples for and then taking those samples and give them back to uh the state for further analysis just a number of different things that we do uh to uh to try to make money now I'm not complaining about if you will the 70% versus uh the 30% that we have to raise through for-profits it's just a

[27:45]  right now it's a a fact of the matter it's something that has to occur uh but when when you know you ask about uh you know that that challenge if you will it's I can dream of a time where I could just look at the nonprofit and completely focus on that nonprofit versus having energy that's placed over on the for-profits in order for them to be profitable as well uh so in that sense uh it's a it's a stretch um but it's where real learning comes from uh and I think that's uh you know I'll I'll take it if you will as an opportunity vers as a a challenge that can't be

[28:31]  overcome one of the really cool topics of our discussion when we first met together was the idea of curiosity in leadership recognizing you have such an amazing Mission at work now you're saying okay now I have to be curious enough to think about how am I going to stand up optimize and operate these other business models in channels to be able to fulfill on the mission that we have at work when you took the role as CEO were you kind of perplexed that there was a lot of complexity that was going on in order to fund the organization what were those early days like when you kind of sat in the seat and were like this is a little bit more than I was thinking maybe well it's the proverbial drinking from a fire hose uh you know I I came out of organizations that had uh their own language I mean if you're in the dental industry and you

[29:19]  have uh all the terms that you have to know same with insurance and uh then coming to uh uh this nonprofit all there was to know the you know the abbreviations of different uh agencies uh yes it seemed very very complex but I think that's been something that uh I've been gifted with as well is curiosity so I didn't come in pretending to know anything uh other than the experience that I had so was really brought in uh from a a leadership standpoint but what I wanted to do was just to absorb so can everything that I could so whether it was uh reading uh talking to people uh going out in the field spending time

[30:07]  with people with disabilities uh I had the uh the great opportunity to spend a lot of one on one time with the prior CEO as well as others uh board members uh and that uh that certainly helped to close that gap between you know what was and what is and I think that Curiosity I'm a I have five children uh all all grown but when they were younger you know I would say uh every one of them uh as most kids will do ask question after question after question uh and that can get tedious um but as a parent uh I've try to uh instill upon them the importance

[30:56]  of asking those questions because if you uh start squashing it at that young age then you don't get you don't get that uh you don't take that forward with you you've learned to kind of uh quiet the questions uh and I know that's of course you know one thing that uh you learn in the military is that you're given an order to do and you're not supposed to ask questions you're supposed to do it uh but you uh uh I think you still find the soldiers asking question so why do we have to do this versus this uh and to me that's just a a sign one of uh intelligence um but another of uh trying to get to the best answer the best response the best way of doing something

[31:44]  and that happens through curiosity as a part of innovation I mean that's a beautiful area of discussion for a second I uh in another collaboration I had with a leader named Chris gillet who is the former vice president of global Employee Engagement for DHL we talked about asking questions he said you know a lot of large corporations will say when you come into an organization you put your head down you look around and you learn as much as possible but don't get in the way here at DHL as he described it we said in your first 60 days you ask as many questions as possible because often if you've been in the organization for too long you're too close to the problem and you often can't even see it and so when I think about the world of nonprofits innovation comes with curiosity almost as a double deal right if we need to do things

[32:32]  differently we have to encourage our team members to ask questions because they come from different perspectives and those questions can lead to innovations that help us do our job better they also lead to efficiencies and I feel like especially in the world that you're in in the nonprofit space that Innovation and curiosity leads to different perspectives on how we tackle these challenges that we're not going to be able to do so otherwise so true I think it's uh uh it's tied into uh nonprofits um tend to in my experience anyway have a stronger drive towards the cause they talk about uh we're in this cause uh this is uh it's the reason I get up in the morning this is what I'm

[33:19]  passionate about uh I think on the for-profit side uh yes you can have that same amount of zeal that passion but ordinarily it's not the same and I think that uh part of that has to do with the uh just the the nature of really understanding uh how that mission pulls towards you uh and I think that by asking as you were talking about that Curiosity that in leading to uh Innovation it's really about uh again not thinking about as a CEO as an as an example what can I do for this organization instead it's what can I do

[34:08]  for this cause uh and that's the thing that helps to move the organization forward and another thing on the asking questions I think is that when I uh think about our vision about people with disabilities uh to be uh if you will involved contributing thriving uh one thing that hasn't been done that I want to do uh coming up here in the next uh year to two years is what's that mean to a person with disabilities that's that's part of my customer experience background I want to hear in that language I want to hear in those descriptions what's it mean to be thriving what's it mean to be uh if you

[34:58]  will to to be um uh to feel like you're involved to feel like you're contributing uh what's that mean to you because those are the ways that we're measure then the progress that we're making and those are the ways that I believe uh that you can reach the hearts and soul of people that uh you work with in order to make that happen for every other business leader founder CEO who's listening to this episode right now I want you to rewind a couple seconds and listen to exactly what Chris said he said in order to create the best experience you go out and you talk to your customer you ask them how do you feel fulfilled because we have a perspective as Leaders of a business or Business Leaders in general where we think we know but the answer is literally right in front of you by

[35:45]  taking the time to be curious enough once again to be intentional in asking people how can we better formulate our message here and what does it mean to you because those two pieces of feedback are completely different but somewhere in the middle is an amazing answer and I love that Initiative for you over the next two years Chris thank you it's uh it's something that I believe uh really does come out of the customer experience of work that I've done in the past I when I started at Delta dentl I think I mentioned to you that I said uh I was the first director of patient experience but I argued that it was director of customer experience I remember talking to the CEO uh and and uh he was pretty certain that you should call it patient experience not customer

[36:32]  experience because they're a patient when they sit in the dental chair and my argument was uh but when we send them an explanation of benefits uh they're a customer they're not a patient when they think of Delta Dental they're thinking okay I have these dental benefits I'm a customer of theirs I'm not a patient of theirs uh and he said prove it to me so that's when I went out did uh some customer focus groups but I didn't just use Delta Dental uh customers or members instead uh pulled in a lot of different people and so that's uh the end of that story is that it was a very compelling evidence that the relationship they have with Delta denal was as a customer the reason I bring that up is that it's

[37:20]  important for any organization to ask what's the relationship they have with the customer was uh that's what what they think may not be what the customer thinks so you got to ask the customer what's your relationship with our company what's your relationship with companies like ours how would you describe it uh and that sometimes will give you a whole different perspective I mean this is what makes you such a great leader Chris your willingness to go back to the Grassroots and ask the tough questions but also I would say warrant feedback from the people who are truly involved in the processes gives you the opportunity the advantage that a lot of people aren't willing especially in leadership to be able to go back and I would say humble themselves to ask those types of questions right why is it so difficult for leaders of large organizations to take that perspective

[38:08]  when a you know a CEO of maybe a small startup or something like that is willing to listen to feedback that's a really interesting dichotomy that's kind of bouncing around in my head right now well I think one of the greatest definitions I've ever heard of leadership was leadership is the art of asking the well-packed question I think that there are leaders who don't want to ask the question but then I don't think that they will be stretched as far as they might otherwise ask or they might otherwise be uh I do think that in order to be successful you have to be willing to ask the questions and you have to be willing to hear the answers you know a lot of companies do culture surveys uh and I was with a company that did a I was a director of a company

[38:57]  company did a culture survey and one of the questions was uh how much confidence do you have are no I'm sorry are you confident in senior leadership and it scored really poorly and so the uh executive team for the organization called in all the senior leaders and they said people are just the people that work here are employees they're not confident in you why aren't they confident in you it's like no no no who do they mean it was it's the it was that senior leadership uh and when you start breaking it down they were talking about executive leadership uh and that's just uh part of if some sometimes you hear the answer

[39:46]  but it's the answer you don't want to hear you got to be open to hear well you might be hoping to hear this answer but the value is in the actual answer and then you got to figure out how to best leverage that make changes to it that make the world of difference in that organization man I think of I think of two things um I think of all the value that you're bringing to this podcast right now but also I am incredibly envious of the other younger leaders who are working underneath you right now Chris if me and you can spend 40 minutes together and you can share and I can rub off as much knowledge and I would say perspectives that I've been able to I know that the Future Leaders of at work are getting to I would say gather so much knowledge as they just kind of spend time with you that transfers of knowledge is so beautiful

[40:35]  and you got to be building such an amazing team man I can see it from the outside we we have a great team uh and certainly the within the community of other organizations work with people with disabilities amazing group of people and uh I'm not bashful about learning from them uh and uh asking questions and I I know that you know there's been times in different remote meetings or inperson meetings where I've uh said excuse me I know I'm asking a lot of questions but what about this what about that and and I think that uh it is um it's a blessing to be able to share things that you know experiences that you had with others because I've had that opportunity and I've learned so

[41:23]  much from people that I've worked with and I've uh sought after people that I wanted to learn from there may have been people that I didn't really necessarily like but there was some aspect about them I just wanted to get in there and learn uh how they think like that uh and that's made a made a tremendous difference uh for me and as I tell people that I work with I'm uh you know in the next 20 years or whatever it might be if I'm sitting in a rocking chair in front of my home uh I know what I will be recalling you know uh God willing is the people that I worked with not about what was our Revenue the revenue generated the bottom line uh you

[42:13]  know the the profit that we had not about the number of uh what was the growth that we had in you know 2024 instead it's going to be I remember this person asking this question I remember uh interacting with this person and when it comes down to it uh those to me are the memorable uh moments uh that build a life that's worth living I wish we could end the podcast right there because that's an amazing way to kind of put a bow on this but I have to ask you what does the future of at work look like let's talk about your vision for let's say the next five years what are we trying to do what are we trying to accomplish what are we hoping for well we're certainly uh it's it's going to be uh all hands on deck working towards uh

[43:00]  the vision of this organization uh and so we've defined that Vision uh or we described it this better way of saying it we've described the vision uh shared with you um but we haven't defined it in terms of people of disabilities so I want that defined and I want to know where we are now and uh based upon those definitions and where we want to be uh and that's the creative tension between the two you know there was a I remember long ago I read a book by Peter S called The Fifth Discipline and he talks about creative uh tension and he does it through kind of showing

[43:47]  uh your two hands and a rubber band between the two you said here's where you are here's where you want to be so you have this tension on the rubber band and way you can release it is by either lowering where it is that you want to go or if you're not willing to do that then it's moving up from where you are uh closing that Gap so in the next five years what we'll be working on is to uh close that Gap I I want that creative tension I want to know uh uh what will make the difference uh for the people that we have the opportunity to work with uh and then uh we're working on really there's I would say there's uh about four different areas one is working on Innovation and we've talked a

[44:35]  little bit about that uh but certainly uh there's some progress that we can make uh through Innovation with people with disabilities and some of the things are borrowing from other fields in order to help people with disabilities I think also the um providing even more highquality services the families and we're able to do today uh that would be one of the things we focus on U the other thing that you learned from nonprofits is that you're in a community of other organizations that are doing similar things uh and there are some nonprofits that may not be doing what you're doing today but you can partner with them you can work with them collaboratively to do something better

[45:21]  than you could ever do by yourself and I guess the uh the fourth thing that would see us working on in in those five years is the uh continued movement on Dei initiatives you know uh I talked about uh marginalized populations and people with disabilities are the largest marginalized population in the United States about uh you know 20% you can hear some people say as high as 25% but 20% of the the population uh is uh either intellectually or uh Dev Lally disabled and uh when you take that even further to say well we work with these people these races these groups of

[46:10]  people but as you look at other marginalized uh uh races uh and then you take those people of disabilities they're not getting reached and so I want to provide an opportunity for us to reach the people people that were hardest to reach the people that may not knew of opportunities the people that culturally may not have known also some of the opportunities that exist where we can work together and that's really you know uh uh breaking down barriers uh in order to move the organization forward such an inspiration seriously Chris I want to land the plane officially here by asking a question that came from our previous guest and I'm really excited to hear

[46:56]  your answer answer on this a previous guest wanted to ask the simple question what is the most important lesson you've learned from your journey thus far wow okay uh the most important Lesson by far on that journey is to know yourself it is to really look at yourself in such a way that I think it was a German philosopher uh that said and then the recesses of your mind where you're covered up there in is the lie so when you look at yourself

[47:45]  what lies are you telling yourself what blankets are covering up things that if you were to uncover uh might just un leash a whole amount of emotion but if you can work through that if you can get from where you are to the person that you want to be and keep moving towards that then you're not only be the best version of yourself but you're be able to help others as well and so when I hear people talk about uh taking you know this journey that people are on uh the I I always step back and say as a leader the first person you have to be

[48:34]  able to lead is yourself and the way that you lead yourself is to understand yourself understand what you need to change understand where your weaknesses are doesn't mean that you accept them but you understand them and you work on uh what does that mean how far back does that go what are those voices that tell you you can't and how do you get past that so that you can so that's what I would say well that's an amazing place for us to be able to put a wrap on today's episode once again everybody here's for everyone here who's been tuning in watching and listening this is another episode of the heart and hustle podcast Chris thank you so much for joining us really appreciate it that's a wrap